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Reworking Brutality 
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Rising Hero
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Joined: 29 Feb 2016 19:51
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Everyone complains about Brutality.
And they are right to; a high Brutality can make growth next to impossible.
The only counter is to quest until your Brutality is low enough to allow for growth again.

However, the Brutality system serves a purpose: to encourage adventures to do quests!
Quests are important! But the system does make this "encouragement" a bit tedious and oppressive. (From time to time.)

I propose a change!
A new, Brutality-like meter that resets every Arma.
I thought at first that it could replace the current system, though it may be better for it to supplement the current system instead..

"What are you trying to say? Explain yourself!"
Oh, right. Let's see..
This new meter would stack on top of the Brutality meter, and be influenced by the level of brutality.
After every Arma, this new meter resets.
It provides a boost to the general experience gained which goes down as it is used.
The lower your Brutality, the more effective the boost is.

Let's say, at the start of a new session (That is, after Arma..) the new meter is empty.
When the meter is empty, the character gains no points to their Brutality; it doesn't go up.
An empty meter provides a good boost to experience gained. How about 125% normal.
As the character fights, the meter fills. As the meter fills, the boost goes down.
Eventually, the boost goes away. The character is now earning 100% normal experience.
This could continue to drop, down to 90% perhaps, but at a much slower rate than before.
At this point, the character begins to gain Brutality again.
The meter cannot be emptied again except at Arma. Though, perhaps, there could be ways to slow/stop it from filling temporarily.. A potion or item or once-per-Arma quest effect..

Let's look at some theoretical numbers here..
The current system:
Character A, with no Brutality, kills a rat. He gains 10 xp.
Character B, with a Brutality that lowers their gains by 50%, gets 5 xp.

With the new meter added:
Character A, no Brutality, empty meter, would gain 12.5 xp. (13, since Wizards round up, right?)
Character B, 50% loss, empty meter, would gain 6.25 xp. (Up? Down? Probably round down.. 6.)
Character C, no brute, full meter*, gets 10 xp.
Character D, 50% loss, full meter*, gets 5 xp.
Character E, (Another variation that has suddenly escaped me..)

*(At the normal gains point; 100%)
These numbers were a bit small, so it's not very impressive, but you get the idea.

Now, the name of this meter comes into question.. Calling it a meter is not very RP friendly.
I was thinking Depression. Or Boredom. Or something to do with not being interested in fighting anymore.
When you're not that interested, you're not paying attention, so you'd gain less experience.

I think it would help. It gives people who don't want to quest the opportunity to grow and rewards those who put the effort in to do quests.
Plus, I think it'd have RP value.. Everybody, regardless of alignment is likely to get bored of killing endless hordes of mobs, so the new meter would address that.


(Oh boy, I really butchered my idea here.. I think my Brutality went up a couple levels just from typing this..)
(Might have to come back tomorrow and explain this mes I've made.)

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23 May 2017 07:32
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Myth
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We do need some system to limit max character growth.

The fact everyone is on their own system is rather unfair. Its not an issue of these people r lazy. Not everyone enjoys questing. And although I'm trying not to dwell on it, even if u did all quests currently u still cant get as much benefit as the select few.

Gen has always for some of reason had the idea that a select few deserve an easier ride.
I call minopoop on that one.
Active player pop r all that deserve any bonuses.

My character is big enough that I don't really care about getting bigger. Only thing pissing me off is since I last changed guilds before recovery system I am stuck grinding through guild titles on violent.

So even tho I kill thousands and thousands more enemies than ppl with low brute and those on recovery they will sail past me.

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23 May 2017 09:57
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Myth

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Actually everyone can reach near-cap QEXP now with just completing the quests in the game.
To actually reach cap you need to fill in with some weekly tasks or events though.
But it's not far off and has little effect on your progress past myth.

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23 May 2017 13:18
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Myth
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Amberlee wrote:
Actually everyone can reach near-cap QEXP now with just completing the quests in the game.
To actually reach cap you need to fill in with some weekly tasks or events though.
But it's not far off and has little effect on your progress past myth.


Ur definition of some is either ill-informed or hilarious

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23 May 2017 15:02
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
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Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Tarax the Terrible wrote:
Amberlee wrote:
Actually everyone can reach near-cap QEXP now with just completing the quests in the game.
To actually reach cap you need to fill in with some weekly tasks or events though.
But it's not far off and has little effect on your progress past myth.


Ur definition of some is either ill-informed or hilarious



Or relative and hillarious.
But here is the thing.
As long as you hit the upper 3-4 ranks for quests done, you're pretty set past myth.
No real need for more quests after that.
Sure it's practical for purposes of grinding faster TO myth, but not after myth.

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23 May 2017 15:38
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Myth
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I am trying to be less on a righteous quest and more chill about it.
(ill save the crusade for a separate brute for guild exp)

Thinking about it in the common parlance this is a reward for the beta testers.
Common in many games.
Just be thankful it isn't a requirement to be a premium user lol.

If in practical terms it is the difference between popping myth at somewhat violent or very violent, then yeah that is a pain but not unconquerable. Just glad the brutal brute myths got thwacked with the intro of the cap in the first place.

There was another idea around before, I think could help with this situation.
Have bands of allowable brutality link to mortal level.
So if you want to quest you can reach the low limit.
If you don't you can keep grinding and not reach omg, what are you thinking lvls of brute.

Cus the system that is in place to stop the myths getting ridiculously big is what stops the quest exp poor ever getting to myth. Well that and no where near the focus and determination you saw from the early myths. Holy shit they could grind.

This would also be nice for the noobs that ppl bring on tag alongs.
Because a few minutes with a myth squad currently catapluts their what they thought was respectable brute into the stratosphere and you have to send them off to look for more quests.

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23 May 2017 17:16
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Rising Hero
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Help.
My thread has been hijacked.

Tarax the Terrible wrote:
Its not an issue of these people r lazy. Not everyone enjoys questing. And although I'm trying not to dwell on it, even if u did all quests currently u still cant get as much benefit as the select few.
Perhaps fore every, say five quests? that a character does, their bonus meter starts a couple percent higher?
Tarax the Terrible wrote:
Gen has always for some of reason had the idea that a select few deserve an easier ride.
I call minopoop on that one.
Active player pop r all that deserve any bonuses.
Perhaps character's days logged in are tracked and their bonus lasts longer/starts higher as a reward for dedicated play?
Tarax the Terrible wrote:
My character is big enough that I don't really care about getting bigger. Only thing pissing me off is since I last changed guilds before recovery system I am stuck grinding through guild titles on violent.

So even tho I kill thousands and thousands more enemies than ppl with low brute and those on recovery they will sail past me.
Guilds could implement a feature whereby you could adjust how much of your experience is going to the guild..
If you don't care about growth, you could set it to 90% tax and gain titles far more quickly.
Though, it could be abused in some manner..


Amberlee wrote:
Actually everyone can reach near-cap QEXP now with just completing the quests in the game.
To actually reach cap you need to fill in with some weekly tasks or events though.
But it's not far off and has little effect on your progress past myth.
A Wizard Who Knows wrote:
It would take ten years of dedicated play.
If that's your idea of not far off..

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23 May 2017 17:46
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Adept
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Joined: 12 Feb 2017 06:07
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My opinions on the topic:

Luma tries to keep her brute low because when she goes on quests, like 25% of the time she dies. I don't quest as much as I should because many quests are obscure and I'm thinking "How in the name of Genesis was I supposed to figure this out without our using a walkthrough or the quest hint site?". Now I know what you are thinking, "What do you propose we do to make quests not unsolvable?" I think the best way to answer that is to give examples of some really nice quests. Ex. the MT murder quest, most tours, Census, Sparkle Alchemist quests, Carlsan, Tutorial. Examples of obscure quests: any long quest that has hidden things and would require you to search large areas and exa and search everything to find it by chance. Many people don't enjoy quests because they are long and hard to figure out. I understand that this is for a reason, as quest XP is permanent, but quests should be fun! Not just something players do to keep their brute low. Quests should be something to look forward to. Take note that this is simply my opinion, but I think quests should be enjoyable. Tell a story, and really be what makes Genesis fun. Questmasters are a great way to make quests better, they provide a reliable source of quests. The hard part should be the quest, not finding the quest giver. Another pet peeve, quest givers that just complain, complain, complain and don't give the slightest hint on what to do, or where to start. This is now way to help someone start a quest. At least have them give directions to another NPC who will tell them more. Great example, the Elfhiem Uruk quest in Edoras, but on this specific quest there is one thing that should be fixed. Have one of the two NPCs say that in order to provide proper proof, the player must provide the Uruk's heart and sword.

All in all, I think quests should be a way to flesh out the world, provide background on an NPC or area and not be impossible. I already mentioned some quests that do this really well, the ones that send you from one place to the next. This makes it more realistic and manageable. It also makes it much more fun and exciting to do these quests, as opposed to a chore


24 May 2017 03:44
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Hero
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Location: Vingaard Keep
Luma wrote:
Quests should be something to look forward to...Tell a story, and really be what makes Genesis fun.


Yes. That is how it should be. From a game design aspect, it is bad to make something vital (quests, growing) boring, overly difficult, or a hassle. The majority of quests should be interesting self-contained stories that make you feel like a real hero/villain. They should make you feel as if your actions matter. Granted sometimes fetching quests are necessary to pad out the amount of content. However, they should be the minority of quests. Raumdor is a great example of how a domain should manage quests. Four quests, all stories, no fetching. I said in another thread that all quests could be tossed out and replaced with a solid 50 really rewarding quests each with an interesting story and doable by all players regardless of align.

A fantastic example is the tutorial quest. It is a large story with two paths to take, based on align, and your choices feel like they matter. The game could be improved by replacing all quests with about fifty of quests like these. However, like the tutorial quest, they need to be logical and not vague in their hints.

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24 May 2017 06:05
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Ody wrote:

Yes. That is how it should be. From a game design aspect, it is bad to make something vital (quests, growing) boring, overly difficult, or a hassle. The majority of quests should be interesting self-contained stories that make you feel like a real hero/villain. They should make you feel as if your actions matter. Granted sometimes fetching quests are necessary to pad out the amount of content. However, they should be the minority of quests. Raumdor is a great example of how a domain should manage quests. Four quests, all stories, no fetching. I said in another thread that all quests could be tossed out and replaced with a solid 50 really rewarding quests each with an interesting story and doable by all players regardless of align.

A fantastic example is the tutorial quest. It is a large story with two paths to take, based on align, and your choices feel like they matter. The game could be improved by replacing all quests with about fifty of quests like these. However, like the tutorial quest, they need to be logical and not vague in their hints.


So basically you want to toss out 28 years of history and several hundred of people's work, and then you want to pay Gorboth to quit his job and instead create 50-ish tutorial style quests?:)

Jokes aside, I get your point, and in a commercial game maybe that's how it would end up. Genesis has very different levels of quality when it comes to all its content. Quests are like the rest of the game. Some are awesome, some are pretty bad, and some are just plain weird! *spit on grugg* We should not just toss out 28 years of history though. While I am all for modernizing and improving Genesis, we should not forget that our game is one of very few online games that soon will celebrate 30 years online. Evolution is good, but it is also important to preserve what we have. I don't think we should toss anything, but improve and tweak the stuff that isn't good enough for Genesis 2017, but doing so gently. I think it's definitely doable to both improve and preserve at the same time.

As for your idea Melarec, I don't know. I like stuff that can be explained in one sentence. Such things also tend to work best. Your idea sounds like it would take at least three tutorial signs to explain.:) Personally I don't really think there's anything really wrong with how brutality works, although I kind of like quests and dislike grinding in Genesis, which is the opposite of how many others feel. But if we want to make questing optional, which a lot of people want, I think I prefer the idea where we only have one type of XP, and no brutality at all. The bigger you get the slower you grow, simple as that.


24 May 2017 07:50
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