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Boost humans stats 
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Veteran

Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27
Posts: 213
I don't see why humans can't get from 600 to 630 with a good sligh plus in everything, if those 670-660-600 numbers do stand. Maybe this has been exhausted already and I'm not aware of it though.


21 Jan 2018 03:50
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 409
Starting to feel like a groundhog moment.

Can I refer back to my post from December when we were talking about racial stats? People in this thread are confusing the racial stat modifier values again and what they do. It also touches on the issue of balancing racial stat modifiers not being as simple as you'd think.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4142&start=80

"With racial point allocations... the more we have dug into this topic the more we uncover issues that complicate things.

So for the hypothetical about tweaking the benefit "numbers" of the races. Myself and Gorboth thought it would be relatively easy to balance the numbers in a logical way... but the reality was that a bonus of +x points to the racial modifier wasn't balanced by a -x points somewhere else... as due to the nature of the exponential scaling of stats, a negative modifier penalty ends up being more impactful than a positive one. So if we tweak the racial modifier bonuses so that they are 'balanced' numerically, the end result is non-human races have a net penalty to stats. So the simple solution of a balanced formula of benefits/negatives only works if we accept that scenario.

Then there is the issue of the benefits of the different stats. If we provide +x bonuses in strength or intelligence or constitution, is it balanced out by a -x to discipline, which is a pretty useless stat? There certainly is a hierarchy of beneficial stats, although with the expansion of magic guilds in the game the hierarchy is less one dimensional than it was."


21 Jan 2018 04:11
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Adventurer

Joined: 23 Nov 2017 03:45
Posts: 95
Again I saw 3 solutions proposed... maybe you can run the numbers and see what one is better.

1: like other said, that humans are "versatile", let humans focus on stats more than other races do. Humans overall already have lower stats than the other races, so a human trying to mimick a goblin won't get total stats same as goblin, but at least will be almost as useful for melee combat for example. And might let people do bizarre builds if they want to. (like... stupid high DIS and CON and RP as stupid suicide tank?)

2: let humans get XP slightly faster, so they compensate lower stats with how fast they reach same power.

3: small bonus to all humans stats, not enough to surpass other races.

----

personally, solution 3 still doesn't fix the raw advantage of sky-high stats some races have in certain guilds. I do think that 3 is RPwise a good solution, but for pure game mechanics the first solution is the most interesting one.


21 Jan 2018 04:48
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Veteran

Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27
Posts: 213
I think I get it about the stats. Sorry about the older post, I can't follow the huge forum wars easily. Focusing on 3 stats would be a nice little addition though, just adding the possibility of 2 mental + 1 physical and 2 physical + 1 mental. Code should be around from the physical/mental focuses?


21 Jan 2018 05:24
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Wizard
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Joined: 03 Mar 2014 13:03
Posts: 139
Location: US West
Alteor wrote:
Again I saw 3 solutions proposed... maybe you can run the numbers and see what one is better.

1: like other said, that humans are "versatile", let humans focus on stats more than other races do. Humans overall already have lower stats than the other races, so a human trying to mimick a goblin won't get total stats same as goblin, but at least will be almost as useful for melee combat for example. And might let people do bizarre builds if they want to. (like... stupid high DIS and CON and RP as stupid suicide tank?)

2: let humans get XP slightly faster, so they compensate lower stats with how fast they reach same power.

3: small bonus to all humans stats, not enough to surpass other races.

----

personally, solution 3 still doesn't fix the raw advantage of sky-high stats some races have in certain guilds. I do think that 3 is RPwise a good solution, but for pure game mechanics the first solution is the most interesting one.

Did you read what Arman said? Negatives are far more impactful than bonuses. That means humans already get a bonus because they don't have any negatives. Also, stats are not the only way to measure versatility. Zugzug has pointed out that humans are versatile in ways outside of stats - guild options. Humans have more versatility available that any other race.

I'm not saying i think racial stats are perfect. On the other thread with the straw poll, I hoped for maybe a slight change to freshen things up. But I also recognize that Arman and the rest of the Balance team have done a very good job with new and existing content and put a lot of consideration into any changes or conscious non-changes.


21 Jan 2018 19:54
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