1 minute delay

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Shanoga
Wizard
Posts: 187
Joined: 03 Mar 2014 13:03
Location: US West

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Shanoga » 26 Sep 2020 20:10

As a follow-up, I did some research on the history of short auctions and, frankly, auction bots don't seem to be a very common occurrence. I can say from experience that there have been cases when an auction is posted, I check for it immediately, and I don't see it. Then (since I have wiz powers, of course) I check the logs and it hasn't sold. So I check the list again and I just didn't see it the first time.

Feel free to update if you have some examples of items that are selling immediately and I can check to see if there is a problematic history. As discussed above, feel free to post your auctions without a buyout so it's a real auction and nobody can snipe it.

Tarlok
Apprentice
Posts: 46
Joined: 27 Aug 2018 12:33

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Tarlok » 27 Sep 2020 02:09

It might be helpful to raise the min bid on auctions. Most start at 20 because after that deposit is required. If the item is magic or imbued, a higher threshold w/o deposit seems ok to me, perhaps 50. Also the increment between bids is too small. If I am bid warring someone for an item, the steps need to be larger... these seem like two significant issues that prevent people from running straight auctions and instead trying to guess max buyouts when listing items. Thanks!

Budwise
Wanderer
Posts: 65
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 10:17

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Budwise » 30 Oct 2020 22:04

Shanoga wrote:
26 Sep 2020 20:10
Feel free to update if you have some examples of items that are selling immediately and I can check to see if there is a problematic history. As discussed above, feel free to post your auctions without a buyout so it's a real auction and nobody can snipe it.
Just now I put an imbued item up for sale. After the announcement of it being for sale I barely managed to type "aulist" before it was sold and I got the money. And I'm not a slow typer. :)
So no way someone managed to list the item and bid on it. This I think was pure automagical.

Heres the log. I sold the unusual main gauche:


Your black wooden paddle hums for a moment as an unusual main gauche goes on
sale.
aulist
Your black paddle vibrates quickly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Available auctions -----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Num Auction Item High bidder Bid (Max) Time Left
87364 An unusual vallenwood staff - 20 (333) 2 d 19 h
Topaz formations along its surface emit a faint glow.
87363 An unusual long purple cape - 20 (150) 2 d 18 h
A faint dull feeling comes over you, looking at this object.
87362 An unusual heavy wood club - 20 (150) 2 d 17 h
A faint smell of cinnamon emanates from its surface.
87359 An unusual tattered leather - 20 (-) 2 d 13 h
Beryl formations along its surface emit a pronounced glow.
87349 A dwarven waraxe - 2 (30) 2 d 6 h
87348 A spirit sword - 20 (50) 2 d 6 h
87346 An unusual rigid chainmail - 20 (-) 2 d 3 h
A faint smell of cinnamon emanates from its surface.
87345 An unusual smelly grey chainmail - 20 (-) 2 d 3 h
Its surface has a faint rose tint.
87343 A dragon turtle shell - 20 (60) 2 d 1 h
-- More -- 28/136 -- (<cr> t b r n a <num> q x !<cmd> h ?) --
The clever broad-
shouldered dwarf rumbles: I have some money for you, Budwise. Wait right there.
The clever broad-shouldered dwarf walks behind the counter.
The clever broad-shouldered dwarf returns from behind the counter.
The clever broad-shouldered dwarf rumbles: I have seventy-two platinum for you.
The clever broad-shouldered dwarf rumbles: Here ye go.
The clever broad-shouldered dwarf gives you many platinum coins.
A spindly old gnome enters the tent, and pushes the glass case back out along
with him.

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Mim
Rising Hero
Posts: 300
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Location: Behind your back

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Mim » 30 Oct 2020 23:31

Budwise wrote:
30 Oct 2020 22:04

Just now I put an imbued item up for sale.
72 hours?
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

Thalric
Veteran
Posts: 220
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Thalric » 31 Oct 2020 00:41

Perhaps you sell things too cheap...

But I agree that it is a problem for those of us who also want to buy nice things, put up for sale by people who don't know it's worth.
There ought to be a delay for people who has been idle/not moved within the last 5-10 minutes. Giving a benefit for the active people.

Budwise
Wanderer
Posts: 65
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 10:17

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Budwise » 31 Oct 2020 08:10

The duration of the auction or the price is not the point here.
The fact that it sold instantly after being announced is.
So just providing the requested example for the wizzos.

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3085
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Cherek » 31 Oct 2020 13:33

This has, like most things Genesis, been discussed many times before. Simply adding a delay would probably fairly easy to script around I think, so I am not sure that would help so much? Removing the "Buy now" button and, at the end of the auction time, have the usual "anti snipe"-system where a minute is added each time someone makes a bid would definitely work, and prevent bots. But, I am not sure I like removing the "Buy now" feature. It's our most common form of auction, so clearly it's popular with sellers. So, removing something that is popular might not be a good idea?

A third solution that has been discussed before is a captcha. Gorboth even invented a very advancec captcha system for the auction (and possible other things) a few years ago. Implementing that would solve the auction script/trigger issue, without recoding of the current auction system. However, if I remember correctly, we decided against it because while it would solve the problem, it would also be a big inconvenience, possibly annoyance, for all players, and back then we also noticed that auction triggers aren't that common. Yes, it happens, but the majority of auctions are not won by scripts. I think we determined that a trigger/script sometimes autobuys an item is preferable compared to a catcpha system that would be both annoying and break the immersion. Now, I am sure Gorboth still has the code somewhere, and that we could probably implement it. But should we?

Saimon
Wanderer
Posts: 63
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Saimon » 31 Oct 2020 14:04

And what about adding captcha only for first 5minof auction? After 5min it would be like it wouldve like it is now.

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Skythus
Wanderer
Posts: 72
Joined: 12 Oct 2019 21:59

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Skythus » 31 Oct 2020 18:02

Cherek wrote:
31 Oct 2020 13:33
Yes, it happens, but the majority of auctions are not won by scripts.
Is there any correlation between the types of items bots buy? If so, would it be possible to captcha the items/effects that have been bought out within an extremely short time period?

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3085
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: 1 minute delay

Post by Cherek » 31 Oct 2020 21:08

Skythus wrote:
31 Oct 2020 18:02
Cherek wrote:
31 Oct 2020 13:33
Yes, it happens, but the majority of auctions are not won by scripts.
Is there any correlation between the types of items bots buy? If so, would it be possible to captcha the items/effects that have been bought out within an extremely short time period?
I don't know. I haven't analyzed the log in detail, I was just mentioning what we cluncluded last time this was up for debate on the forums and on the wizline. Perhaps Shanoga knows, since he has been looking at the logs more recently.

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