Evil cities

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Alisa
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 23 May 2020 13:38

Amberlee wrote:
23 May 2020 12:19
No.
I am not wasting more words than I have to on you.
Thank you.

Back to the correct numbers.

Re-gaining alignment. Apologies for not taking it all the way to holy, but I don't play main dps, so it takes quite a long time.
This also means i won't do a full report on amount of kills to get to Holy.

If you're a wizard you should be able to recreate the numbers a bit easier.(to my knowledge)

Comparison in time, if you wish, is 17minutes in Qualinost(solo) vs 3 hours 49 minutes(teamed)
--Timings are not valid in hard numbers, only as a curtesy. Being in a team means competing for kills, thus alignment is harder to gain.
05:50:12:659 | You are holy.
06:07:17:399 | You are untrustworthy.
09:56:54:654 | You are sympathetic.

Areas hunted were GK, TT, Mithas, Dark elves, Ogres, Goblins, and an unnamed area with humans.

So. Trolls and the unnamed humans seem to be the deciding factor on alignment here.

Argument: Just kill unnamed humans then!
Counter: They're less xp, there may be unnamed casters and unnamed melee protecting them.
I know, those aren't numbers, but better state them now than later. Besides, i don't have those numbers. Yes, i like numbers.


You are untrustworthy.
+--------------------------------+
| Total: 77,095 |
+--------------------------------+
| Trolls | 14,630 |
| Ogres | 1,918 |
| Humans | 8,678 |
| Dark elves | 3,670 |
| Goblins | 3,647 |

You are disagreeable.
+--------------------------------+
| Total: 77,133 | - 38 kills to rise
+--------------------------------+
| Trolls | 14,655 | - 25 kills
| Ogres | 1,918 |
| Humans | 8,681 | - 3 kills
| Dark elves | 3,677 | - 7 kills
| Goblins | 3,649 | - 2 kills
GK undeads for the rest = 1 kill
You are agreeable.
+--------------------------------+
| Total: 77,195 | - 62 kills to rise
+--------------------------------+
| Trolls | 14,659 | - 4 kills
| Ogres | 1,936 | - 20 kills
| Humans | 8,684 | - 7 kills
| Dark elves | 3,684 | - 7 kills
| Goblins | 3,652 | - 3 kills
GK undeads must be = 21 kills

You are trustworthy.
+--------------------------------+
| Total: 77,237 | - 42(THE ANSWER) kills to rise
+--------------------------------+
| Trolls | 14,659 |
| Ogres | 1,936 |
| Humans | 8,690 | - 6 kills
| Dark elves | 3,684 |
| Goblins | 3,652 |
GK undeads must be = 36 kills (yes, yes, 42-6 does not equal 38. I fixed it, ok.)

You are sympathetic.
+--------------------------------+
| Total: 77,243 | - 6 kills to rise
+--------------------------------+
| Trolls | 14,659 |
| Ogres | 1,936 |
| Humans | 8,696 | - 6 kills
| Dark elves | 3,684 |
| Goblins | 3,652 |

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Zhar
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Zhar » 23 May 2020 14:47

I think that such numbers make very little sense. If you really want to switch your align you want to hunt stuff that's relatively easy to kill and very evil/very good (temple of Chemosh, barrow wights, kabal slaves, people in kalaman, etc.).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 23 May 2020 16:06

Zhar wrote:
23 May 2020 14:47
I think that such numbers make very little sense. If you really want to switch your align you want to hunt stuff that's relatively easy to kill and very evil/very good (temple of Chemosh, barrow wights, kabal slaves, people in kalaman, etc.).
Why ?
Qualinesti elves are not easy to kill, but the alignment effect is.... Efficient, from holy and down to untrustworthyt at least.

It doesn't do to compare top tier xp areas align effect with minumun tier xp areas.
BUT
I will compare the minimun areas effect next.

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Zhar
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Zhar » 23 May 2020 17:20

Alisa wrote:
23 May 2020 16:06
Zhar wrote:
23 May 2020 14:47
I think that such numbers make very little sense. If you really want to switch your align you want to hunt stuff that's relatively easy to kill and very evil/very good (temple of Chemosh, barrow wights, kabal slaves, people in kalaman, etc.).
Why ?
Qualinesti elves are not easy to kill, but the alignment effect is.... Efficient, from holy and down to untrustworthyt at least.

It doesn't do to compare top tier xp areas align effect with minumun tier xp areas.
BUT
I will compare the minimun areas effect next.
We have different opinions on "efficient" then. Killing 4 rooms with slaves in Kabal gets you from high holy down to unsympathetic or something like that and it takes maybe 2 minutes to do it. If we're talking solely about affecting your alignment it's rather hard to top that.

Going the other way around is harder but I did some experiments recently and killing undead in the forests of Raumdor improved my alignment one level roughly every 2-3 kills so it's not that bad either.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 23 May 2020 17:38

Zhar wrote:
23 May 2020 17:20

Going the other way around is harder but I did some experiments recently and killing undead in the forests of Raumdor improved my alignment one level roughly every 2-3 kills so it's not that bad either.
Nice. I'll add raumdor to my test lest, currently its calia undead caves and barrow downs for gaining good align.
Skeptic about Chemosh temple due to its size, but will look at it.

Any should-be evil sites i should test for going down in alignment?

BONUS: If anyone feel like doing the reverse test-- From damned up, and return to damned :-) I won't do it for obvious reasons.

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Zhar
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Zhar » 23 May 2020 17:55

Alisa wrote:
23 May 2020 17:38
Any should-be evil sites i should test for going down in alignment?
Kabal (slaves, guards), Raumdor (city), Kalaman, Flotsam (centaurs) to go down in align.

Utterdark (Kalad), Chemosh temple, Barrow Downs, Raumdor (forest) to go up in align.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 23 May 2020 20:22

Barrow wights
16:22:21:358 | You are good.
16:22:21:519 | +--------------------------------+
16:22:21:519 | | Total: 77,301 |
16:22:21:520 | +--------------------------------+

16:44:32:303 | You are devout.
16:44:38:075 | +--------------------------------+
16:44:38:076 | | Total: 77,350 |-------- 49 Barrows wights for a level.
16:44:38:076 | +--------------------------------+
17:41:39:350 | You are blessed.
17:41:39:338 | +--------------------------------+
17:41:39:339 | | Total: 77,405 |-----------55 barrow wights for a level.
17:41:39:341 | +--------------------------------+
Calia undeads (this one actually surprised me. I thought it was better)
18:25:21:010 | You are saintly.
18:25:23:125 | +--------------------------------+
18:25:23:125 | | Total: 77,498 |------93! undeads. The whole cavern, without the Harrekki.
18:25:23:127 | +--------------------------------+

So heading back down. This time it's on hobgoblins.
18:26:59:123 | You are blessed.
18:27:00:886 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:00:886 | | Total: 77,499 | --- This is a baseline, just popped down from where i ended at undeads.
18:27:00:887 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:08:116 | You are devout.
18:27:09:704 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:09:705 | | Total: 77,500 | -1 Kill
18:27:09:705 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:27:397 | You are good.
18:27:27:388 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:27:390 | | Total: 77,502 | - 2 kills.
18:27:27:391 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:51:955 | You are sweet.
18:27:54:038 | +--------------------------------+
18:27:54:039 | | Total: 77,503 | - Back to 1 kill
18:27:54:039 | +--------------------------------+
18:28:24:707 | You are nice.
18:28:24:697 | +--------------------------------+
18:28:24:698 | | Total: 77,505 | -2 kills
18:28:24:698 | +--------------------------------+
18:29:17:595 | You are sympathetic.
18:29:20:851 | +--------------------------------+
18:29:20:852 | | Total: 77,507 | -2 kills
18:29:20:853 | +--------------------------------+
18:29:30:288 | You are trustworthy.
18:29:35:330 | +--------------------------------+
18:29:35:332 | | Total: 77,508 | - 1 kill
18:29:35:333 | +--------------------------------+
18:30:00:925 | You are agreeable.
18:30:07:556 | +--------------------------------+
18:30:07:557 | | Total: 77,510 | - 2 kills
18:30:07:557 | +--------------------------------+
18:30:56:482 | You are neutral.
18:30:58:777 | +--------------------------------+
18:30:58:778 | | Total: 77,512 | -2 kills
18:30:58:779 | +--------------------------------+
18:31:43:517 | You are disagreeable.
18:31:45:775 | +--------------------------------+
18:31:45:775 | | Total: 77,515 | - 3 kills
18:31:45:776 | +--------------------------------+
18:32:09:427 | You are untrustworthy.
18:32:16:598 | +--------------------------------+
18:32:16:599 | | Total: 77,517 | -2 kills
18:32:16:599 | +--------------------------------+

Back up in align again.. Baseline Chemosh temple in Flotsam.
18:35:14:936 | You are disagreeable.
18:35:19:451 | +--------------------------------+
18:35:19:452 | | Total: 77,520 |
18:35:19:453 | +--------------------------------+
18:38:20:231 | You are neutral.
18:38:31:202 | +--------------------------------+
18:38:31:204 | | Total: 77,530 | - 10 kills.
18:38:31:205 | +--------------------------------+
18:41:49:575 | You are agreeable. ( This was at Chemosh temple, with 2 wraith from the priest left. Then i went to raumdor)
18:41:53:435 | +--------------------------------+
18:41:53:435 | | Total: 77,542 | - 12 kills
18:41:53:436 | +--------------------------------+
18:49:52:091 | You are trustworthy.(Raumdor forest undeads + 2 wraiths from Chemosh temple)
18:49:53:983 | +--------------------------------+
18:49:53:983 | | Total: 77,548 | - 6 kills
18:49:53:984 | +--------------------------------+
18:57:32:023 | You are sympathetic.
18:57:42:224 | +--------------------------------+
18:57:42:225 | | Total: 77,555 | - 7 kills.
18:57:42:225 | +--------------------------------+
19:02:28:611 | You are nice.
19:02:42:217 | +--------------------------------+
19:02:42:217 | | Total: 77,561 | - 6 kills.
19:02:42:218 | +--------------------------------+
And now i'm tired and i feel i've proven my point.

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 23 May 2020 20:41

My conclusion after running these tests are simple:
Amberlee wrote:
23 May 2020 09:00
2. To go from damned to holy you can do that oh so quickly in the barrows even as a smaller character, just like you get from holy to damned in Drakmere very fast as a smaller character. To be honest those places are even better when you are big as alignment does not care about brute.
Likely true about holy to damned. I won't test that, but you can surely drop fast.
Look at the hobgoblins. 5 minutes from devout to untrustworthy..

From damned to holy oh so fast is not what i would call it. Took me 20 minutes for a single align rise. (NOTE: timestamps for second rise are 1 hour, but i walked the dog etc. there)
You can kill faster, sure. But will you try to claim that its comparable between 50 wights and 5 hobgoblins.
Zhar wrote:
23 May 2020 17:20
killing undead in the forests of Raumdor improved my alignment one level roughly every 2-3 kills so it's not that bad either.
True, Raumdor undeads seem to be quite efficient. I had 6 kills pr align, roughly 7 minutes pr align, a total of 13 minutes/13 kills for 2 alignment levels. Which was the entire forest, except 4 rooms.
What happened to all the rest undeads that were there?
nils wrote:
22 May 2020 17:30
As to qualinost elves - sure, they are pretty 'good', but they aren't very plentiful (relatively), resulting in few kills. As alignment is only affected by the actuall kill, qualinost elves hardly makes a dent for an 'evil team' who has been killing trolls for too long and need adjustment.
If one align level pr kill isn't a dent, i don't know what is.
Speed may ofc decrease when going below untrustworthy, but A huge difference from the other side.

What is the definition of "fixing" alignment. I wouldn't say getting it holy/damned, but getting it into playable range.
Then we can ofc discuss how align effects guilds.

BUT
I don't want to hear about Evil having problems with alignment.

The "goodie" top tier grinders does not affect alignment that much.
There is a top tier grinding that fixes that, if you just help each other get the kill.
Otherwise there is 1-shot hobgoblins and low tier grinders.

Poultry
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Poultry » 24 May 2020 07:42

Killing Khaaz and his guards takes me from holy to blessed. I can't imagine how it'd go if I tried to do ents. Evils complaining about alignment is laughable at best. Sorry. No sympathy here.

You complain that you can't do Ents and Qualinesti and Kabal AND GK, TT, Mithas, and Icewall. But I can't do Ents, Qualinesti OR Kabal in any meaningful sense. Maybe kill a boss for a piece of armour, but that's it. Otherwise, I'll end up in a grey robe instead of a white one. A better solution would be to make GK and MIthas DAMNED in align so that they affect you like Qualinesti and Ents affect me.

Amberlee
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Amberlee » 24 May 2020 13:26

Poultry wrote:
24 May 2020 07:42
Killing Khaaz and his guards takes me from holy to blessed. I can't imagine how it'd go if I tried to do ents. Evils complaining about alignment is laughable at best. Sorry. No sympathy here.

You complain that you can't do Ents and Qualinesti and Kabal AND GK, TT, Mithas, and Icewall. But I can't do Ents, Qualinesti OR Kabal in any meaningful sense. Maybe kill a boss for a piece of armour, but that's it. Otherwise, I'll end up in a grey robe instead of a white one. A better solution would be to make GK and MIthas DAMNED in align so that they affect you like Qualinesti and Ents affect me.
I agree that GK should be damned in align actually.
Every descriptor there says it should be and that it's near neutral makes no sense.
Though it should also have it's holy equivalent since it is in fact a stupidly good XP spot.

As for alignment, that's stupidly easy to correct for both sides though with a slight disadvantage to goodies since they usually get penalized by guilds for it.
But that is a guild matter not an alignment matter.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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