Evil cities

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 24 May 2020 14:59

Amberlee wrote:
24 May 2020 13:26

As for alignment, that's stupidly easy to correct for both sides though with a slight disadvantage to goodies since they usually get penalized by guilds for it.
Again with the easy for both sides.

5 minutes(oneshot mobs), vs 200 minutes(wights, easy but not one-shot) for small mobs. (10 levels of align)
20 minutes(10 mobs) vs estimated 600 minutes(400 mobs) for large mobs(10 levels of align)
For large mobs i assume you're teamed, and teammebers are donating kills for you.
Oh, and the mobs are actually spawned.

There is quite a huge discrepancy. It is not similar.

Is it thematic? Yes, i could understand that argument, but certainly stop claiming its a balance.

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Cherek
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Cherek » 24 May 2020 16:41

I am surprised this is still a discussion :) It's definitely clearly easier to go from holy to damned than it is to go from damned to holy. It's "realistic", yes, but there's no doubt it also makes life a bit easier for evils when grinding (together with looser alignment restrictions in most evil guilds).

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nils
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Re: Evil cities

Post by nils » 24 May 2020 21:58

Alisa wrote:
23 May 2020 20:41
What is the definition of "fixing" alignment. I wouldn't say getting it holy/damned, but getting it into playable range.
Then we can ofc discuss how align effects guilds.

BUT
I don't want to hear about Evil having problems with alignment.

Fixing alignment happens around unsympathetic-sinister, as a crash, loss of internett et al above unsympathetic results in guildkick.

About quali - Consider the 'good xp' to be the largest abundant mobs (happen to be mostly good or neutral, with a couple honourable exceptions), this requires a team. A team of three or more, and you get what? 20ish kills in quali? It doesn't really do a lot (Hardly makes a dent), but sure - I never said it didn't help. It's just not enough for a 'fix'.

I never said I had a problem -managing- alignment, I have a problem with the alignment -system-. It's a silly mechanic that mainly restricts 'good' characters and prohibits early character development (in relation to guild choice vs questing - like Amberlee said, "finish goodie quests first"). The way I see it, alignment is a guideline for behavior, morals/ethics, empathy and so on and so forth, not a result of your mass-murdering habits.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 25 May 2020 15:49

nils wrote:
24 May 2020 21:58
About quali - Consider the 'good xp' to be the largest abundant mobs (happen to be mostly good or neutral, with a couple honourable exceptions), this requires a team. A team of three or more, and you get what? 20ish kills in quali? It doesn't really do a lot (Hardly makes a dent), but sure - I never said it didn't help. It's just not enough for a 'fix'.
As per data below, 20 elves from unsympathetic takes you to foul +1/3 to evil. 4 levels plus a bit.
You can see it starts to take more elves below wicked.

Now the "mostly good" areas was 35 trolls to a SINGLE level of alignment - From below neutral. If it follows the same expansion curve, it would be around 95 trolls from nice to sweet and 140 from good to devout.

We can also take the numbers about abundance once again.
Alisa wrote:
23 May 2020 06:17
22 rooms of 3 elves is 66 elves. More than Terel trolls(12x3+1), slightly less than Mithas(24x3+regenerations).
Note how i haven't even counted the single elves around in the forest? How many is there, 6+ spots i believe.
So, if we say 20 elves, thats a third of all elves. That would equal a third of trolls. If you're big enough and don't have to burn(and not too big and kill them too fast), lets say 3 spawns pr room, which makes troll total to 144. A third is 48, 1½ levels alignment.(Data insufficient on amount needed when becoming nice or above)
Vs the 4 from Qualinesti.
(Not to mention xp seems better in qualinost)
nils wrote:
24 May 2020 21:58
I never said I had a problem -managing- alignment, I have a problem with the alignment -system-. It's a silly mechanic that mainly restricts 'good' characters and prohibits early character development (in relation to guild choice vs questing - like Amberlee said, "finish goodie quests first"). The way I see it, alignment is a guideline for behavior, morals/ethics, empathy and so on and so forth, not a result of your mass-murdering habits.
We do agree killing as the only effect is a silly align-meter, it just is the only we have currently.
While we want changes the future, and many people are talking about it, it does not change our current situation.

Nor does it help to claim there is balance. As i said earlier, there might be theme, but there doesn't seem to be balance.

You are unsympathetic.
2 Qualinesti elves killed
You are sinister.
3 Qualinesti elves killed
You are wicked.
6 Qualinesti elves killed
You are nasty.
6 Qualinesti elves killed
You are foul.
9 Qualinesti elves killed
You are evil.
12 Qualinesti elves killed
You are malevolent.

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Alisa
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Alisa » 26 May 2020 13:11

Amberlee wrote:
26 May 2020 12:26
Post removed - Moderator
Everyone is free to run the same tests that i did.

I encourage it.

And if they are not similar, i will work together with anyone to figure out why there are deviations.

So stop complaining and actually do some work instead of just shouting.

Nerull
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Nerull » 26 May 2020 14:39

What if....alignment did degrade the same for both and evil (slow degradation for goodies like it's for evils)? Wouldn't that solve this issue since now both would be equally fair on the alignment question? (number of goodies vs evil grinders excluded).

Thalric
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Thalric » 26 May 2020 16:17

Yes, it would

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Cherek
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Cherek » 26 May 2020 19:47

Sure Nerull, and like I said earlier in the thread I am fine with this change if the AoB crew agrees. I can't think of anything negative with it (except "realism" take a hit, which I am fine with in this case), but are there any other negative side effects from doing this? Is there something we haven't thought about that might be messed up? Can anyone think of anything?

Nerull
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Nerull » 26 May 2020 19:57

Cherek wrote:
26 May 2020 19:47
Sure Nerull, and like I said earlier in the thread I am fine with this change if the AoB crew agrees. I can't think of anything negative with it (except "realism" take a hit, which I am fine with in this case), but are there any other negative side effects from doing this? Is there something we haven't thought about that might be messed up? Can anyone think of anything?
Yeah, that's why I asked here. Could be that players have some opinions / see issues that eludes us. :)

Thalric
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Re: Evil cities

Post by Thalric » 26 May 2020 20:14

What i read was something along the lines of npcs being the same align. Good and bad.
Not that holy and damned npcs change align the same.
That wouldnt change the fact that gk and mithas are basically neutral and ents and qualinesti are very good.

So, npcs should have 3 aligns.. good, neutral or evil. Good and evil by the same align.
That was what i answered yes to earlier.

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