Autohunting vs Autotracking

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Mim
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Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Mim » 07 Apr 2021 19:10

Greetings!

A long time ago, when people got faster computers and better links the 'autohunter' was born.
Attack someone, he runs, but the computer follows the 'runner' faster than he runs so there was the inevitable end of the fight. Runner dead.
This was if I remember it right not considered by the admin a good way of things.
There came a rule about autohunters.

HELP RULES

Code: Select all

[i]Autohunt and Speedwalking during PvP
  While triggers make many things within the realms much easier, and using
  speedwalking paths makes for quick travel, the use of these during player
  versus player combat is prohibited. Using triggers to hunt another player
  or using a speedwalking path to escape player versus player combat 
  will result in:[/i]
  
  			1st offense - Warning
			2nd offense - Death without recovery
  
So this kind of play is not taken lightly by the game.
The 'losing side' of this was obviously bigger players who like to fight and kill those who are not.
So how solve missing the 'autohunter'?

The obvious answer is to create or use something that works almost the same, but have the same outcome.
The autotracking was born as a substitution to autohunter.
What is the autotracking some may ask? (By some it is a well known thing and has been used many years I have been told)
It is having a very high tracking skill combined with the mentioned high speed computer and link.
Player A attacks player B who runs. All over Genesis, many many rooms away. Yet, player A finds him within seconds using tracking.

Lets think a bit more about this skill. It has been forever in Genesis as far I remember.
It has nonexisting (what I know of) use in PVE and questing or daily play of the game.
But someone thought a little deeper and found this use of the skill.
To circumvent the rule about autohunters and use the autotracker instead.

Was it a wizard who come up with the idea? Or a regular player?
Or someone needing to chase running players without having the risk of beeing punished?
I have no idea myself, but I can guess.

But someone, obviously a wizard gave a guild a very high tracking.
I do not think there are items that raise tracking, and stones do not.
But I was told there is a herb that raises this skill (how clever).
So at very high skill level, sup guru maybe, a player can track a running player in a few seconds all over the game where running is possible.
I have also been told that it is not allowed to have the computer doing the following. You must 'move' yourself even if the trigger tells you where to move.
But who can tell if you move with a trigger or manually?

So my suggestion is:
As long there are autotrackers in the game that have the blessing from admin, I think the rule about autohunters should be removed. Why have a rule for one thing, when the almost similar thing with the same effect is allowed?

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nils
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by nils » 07 Apr 2021 20:15

How about actually enabling auto-hunt functionality to the global skill "Hunting"? Would make PvP more dangerous, no?
Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

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Mim
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Mim » 07 Apr 2021 20:30

nils wrote:
07 Apr 2021 20:15
How about actually enabling auto-hunt functionality to the global skill "Hunting"? Would make PvP more dangerous, no?
Yes. Why not?
If there is a global tracking skill that works fine, why not a global hunting skill?

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Cherek
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Cherek » 08 Apr 2021 02:18

Mim wrote:
07 Apr 2021 19:10
As long there are autotrackers in the game that have the blessing from admin, I think the rule about autohunters should be removed. Why have a rule for one thing, when the almost similar thing with the same effect is allowed?
Uhm, autotrackers don't have the blessing from the admin? What makes you say that? This is what the rules say:

Code: Select all

 
 Using triggers to hunt another player or using a speedwalking path
 to escape player versus player combat will result in:
  
                        1st offense - Warning
                        2nd offense - Death without recovery            
For this "autotracking" to be an actual benefit in PVP you'd have to set up triggers that do the <track> command and then follow the tracks, which would clearly violate the rule of using triggers to hunt another player. Just like "normal" autohunting is a violation of the rules. Proving someone used automated triggers/scripts can sometimes be hard of course, but if you follow a player over a large distance within seconds, it's pretty obvious isn't it? There is your proof right there. If you follow someone quicker than what's humanly possible you are using some form of automation - and then you violate the rules.

I agree that it would be much better if we had a coded system in place, instead of the rule. It can definitely be tricky to enforce, and in general i think the less rules we have, the better. A coded solution is almost always better than a rule in my opinion. If I remember correctly, we added the rules as a temporary "solution" (but not a great one), until we could come up and code something better. That's one in a long list of things we should do... at some point...

About the idea of a global "autohunt"-ish skill, sure, it might be an interesting addition that could make PVP more fun. However, right now, I am reluctant to add any PVP tools to the game until we have a more fun and fair PVP system in general. I am worried we would just give more tools to the huge players, allowing them to gank smaller ones more easily, and that's problematic enough as it is I think.

Dan
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Dan » 08 Apr 2021 09:44

So howcome 1 specific archer is allowed to do just that ? and have been doing so for years and even slew a player 2 weeks ago and yet the AoP says 'no that is fine'

I've had said archer follow me from north of abanisian to verminaard to dwarven outpost in matter of seconds, and every1 knows he's using autohunt yet its deemd ok.

Seems we're playing under double standards here,.

Drazson
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Drazson » 08 Apr 2021 10:30

Does tracking not have a search time? Last I used it I'm pretty sure it had, unless the guild has/had non-standardized track? (Was also "missing" in my attempts, mixing up trails but let's say I'm just bad at tracking)

Chanele
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Chanele » 08 Apr 2021 11:12

I have had some experience regarding this but I thought it was legal..

This perticular Archer can find you anywhere on plains within seconds, quite a feat. My guess is tracking is instant with high enough skill which makes it very easy to trigger on hunt.

Put a longer delay on search even at high level skill might solve half of the problem. The other half is to remind people of the rules.

Dan
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Dan » 08 Apr 2021 11:17

As i said Chanele, said archer managed to slay a myth doing exactly that, and after 15 days of investigation got the usual 'no its fine, nothing illegal there'..

3 huge BDA players vs that one archer, and he almost ganked 1 of us, backstab style hard in 2 big hits on one target, then with the super tracking followed the fleeing guy who we couldnt keep standing to heal as well, the super white hits from hell almost got him. Funny was we thought we were the one hunting him :)

I gave up genesis shortly after.

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Mim
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Mim » 08 Apr 2021 11:21

Drazson wrote:
08 Apr 2021 10:30
Does tracking not have a search time?
It does, but the higher skill level it has, the shorter is the time I have been told.
Im a merc so I can test how fast it is at sup guru.

Kvator
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Re: Autohunting vs Autotracking

Post by Kvator » 08 Apr 2021 11:29

Dan wrote:
08 Apr 2021 11:17
As i said Chanele, said archer managed to slay a myth doing exactly that, and after 15 days of investigation got the usual 'no its fine, nothing illegal there'..

3 huge BDA players vs that one archer, and he almost ganked 1 of us, backstab style hard in 2 big hits on one target, then with the super tracking followed the fleeing guy who we couldnt keep standing to heal as well, the super white hits from hell almost got him. Funny was we thought we were the one hunting him :)

I gave up genesis shortly after.
Is there a tiny possibility that this archer might be just a bit better in pvp than you or few other BDA players?

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