Forum moderation

Discuss ideas for how to make the game better. Wizards, take note!
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
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Sharn
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:34

Forum moderation

Post by Sharn » 13 Mar 2010 01:07

sharn wrote:The moderation here has come to the point where next step would be that my forum nick would be modarated because it reveals "in game info".
I understand that moderators want to avoid what happened to previous unofficial forums,
but the moderation here has come way overboard in my opinion.
petros wrote:hey, i respect that you feel it's gone way overboard. mind if I understand which part you feel is overboard?
I meant the post where, I think it was Rhynox, was revealing Angmar ability.

When you asked I started to think about it.
Obviously, the line must be drawn somewhere - what is guild info, wiz info, illegal info and what is not.
The rules now say: I am allowed to say what I have seen, but I cannot say that some guild has certain ability.

There is some common knowledge most of the players already have and moderating commonly known facts is ridiculous.
It is hard to differ what is common knowledge and what is not.

For example:
Gladiators and Angmar are very old guilds.
Gladiators are free to join and Angmar are not very picky in choosing their members.
Mercenaries are also free to join.

I am pretty sure that abilities of those guilds hold no secrets to the majority of the players.

What is common knowledge and what is not?

I think we should have official genesis wiki.
Each guild would be described there. Some guilds would reveal all of their abilities.
Some would reveal just some general informations.
The wiki would reveal as much guild information as you can get from official sources in game like:
libraries and such.

Information that is available in the wiki would be common knowledge and would not be moderated.

Rhynox
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Location: Departed from here. Meet at Genesis!

Re: Forum moderation

Post by Rhynox » 13 Mar 2010 04:16

I wrote several articles for whenever a wiki were implemented. Abilities would be discussed only via public information (for example, information posted in recruitment books available for wannabe members). Defunct guilds would have as much information as available (including recipes for spells if someone knew about them and felt ok to reveal that). However, I stopped after thirty or so articles because, while I was told a wiki could be implemented in the new server, nobody could assure me that the information wouldn't be censored. Was not going to interview people and rebuild the history of Genesis just to have it shrinked to "Rangers are specialists in surprise attacks." or the like.

Here is the one I wrote about the Wizards of High Sorcery, with most of the information given by Zingil, minus hyperlinks and missing some formatting (and lacking proofreading).

Wizards of High Sorcery
The Wizards of High Sorcery is one of the defunct guilds of Genesis. Members were forbidden to join a layman guild while member of this occupational guild. It was opened during the first months of 1997, and closed around Christmas of the same year.

Background history
In the Age of Dreams the Gods of Magic Solinari, Lunitari and Nuitari took on human forms and walked the lands of Krynn seeking to find Disciples to teach the Art of Magic. These Disciples were taken to the Lost Citadel and taught how to channel power from the three moons and how to shape it to their will. From these Disciples sprung the three Orders of High Sorcery. The Order of the White Robes, patroned by Solinari, focused on using magic to better the world for its inhabitants. The Order of the Red Robes, patroned by Lunitari, dedicated to preserving the balance between good and evil. The Order of the Black Robes, patroned by Nuitari, which members use magic to further their own needs and goals. All orders share their dedication of studying, creating and preserving magic throughout the Realms.

Structure
The Wizards of High Sorcery are ruled by the Conclave which consists of seven members of each Order and is led by the Master of the Conclave. Each Order of High Sorcery is headed by an Archmage, who is appointed in different fashions depending on the Order. All Wizards of High Sorcery abide by the rules set down by the Gods of Magic:
  • Solinari's Rule: All Wizards are brothers in their Order and all Orders are brothers in power.
  • Lunitari's Rule: The Towers of High Sorcery are held in common amongst the Orders and no sorcery shall be used there in anger against other wizards.
  • Nuitari's Rule: The World may bring brother against brother and Order against Order, but such is the way of the Universe.
Towers of High Sorcery
Several Towers of High Sorcery were built as centers of the Orders of High Sorcery but only two have survived to this day. The Tower in Palanthas, guarded by the Shoikan Grove, and the Tower in Wayreth, seat of the Conclave and where apprentices may undergo the Test to become full Wizards of High Sorcery. The Tower in Wayreth, and the surrounding Guardian Forest, are surrounded by a potent magical field preventing anyone but members of the Orders from ever reaching the Tower itself. Within Genesis, the Palanthas tower was never opened.

The guild itself was located in the middle of the Darken Woods, west of Haven.

Application process
To become a Wizard of High Sorcery an aspiring student must first find a Wizard willing to teach the Art. After years of practice and study of spells and lore the student of the Art may be judged advanced enough to take the Test. The Test is used to weed out those not fully dedicated to magic and the Art as failure during the Test invariably results in death. The Test is mainly based on illusions, to test the readiness of the student as well as the innermost secrets of the students heart, but many of the illusions are deadly. It is not unheard of that a student has come out from the Test wearing a Robe with a different colour from that which he wore entering the Test. Those that refuse to take the Test are removed from the Tower while those that take and pass the Test become full Wizards and may continue to study the Art and become more powerful sorcerers.

Abilities
The magic used by the Wizards of the different orders vary. In general the White Robed wizards use magic that augment and strengthen its targets while the Wizards of the Black Order use the Art to weaken their enemies. Members of the Red Order can cast both types of spells but slightly less effectively. The power of the Wizards change with the waxing and waning of the moon of their patron God or Goddess. The more full the moon the more powerful the Wizard.

Wizards were only allowed to wield daggers and staves, and were not allowed to wear any heavy armour.

Members
Members of the White Robes included archmage Arethian, Mhyrmarius, Aaron, Cizada, Spirit and Zingil. Chataigne and Melchar were archmages of the Black Robes, while Rocque was the archmage of the Red Robes. Probable members include Silvaran and Thalis of the White and Red respectively.

Closure
Members were informed the guild closed due lack of maintenance, as the guild was not finished and lacked several abilities and spells even though members were paying full tax.

See also
  • Defunct guild

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petros
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Re: Forum moderation

Post by petros » 13 Mar 2010 10:50

Sharn,

Thanks so much for volunteering to get this thread started. I think your idea about defining exactly what is considered "public" or not is a great one, and having a Wiki where people can learn about the game would be a great addition to the game.

One concern that Rhynox mentions is the concern that the content on the Wiki will be moderated as well, which could potentially ruin the information sharing. I can certainly see why that is a concern. To address this concern, I think we should tackle your question at the same time as well. It goes along perfectly with your question about what is considered "common knowledge". Someone has to determine that, and left to individuals to decide, each and every person has a different perspective on what that common knowledge is.

Let me share why sharing of "common" knowledge on the forums without an established Wiki concerns me. When I was a player, I would often hear from my guild mates rumours and things that were considered "common knowledge". However, upon becoming a wizard and seeing the code and being able to test some of these "common knowledge" assumptions, I found that often times, they varied from mildly incorrect to grossly misrepresented.

What made this worse was that there were some individuals who were assumed to have very good knowledge of the game who would often say things that were simply not true, leading others to believe them. Now, granted, some of the things said were true in the past, but had been changed. The individuals involved in this information sharing thus either knowingly or not imparted old knowledge that led to bad "common knowledge" floating around.

The point I'm trying to make is this. No one - not even most wizards - has a firm grasp at any time of what is truly correct when it comes to these "common knowledge" subjects. Any time someone makes a claim that I did not know about, I typically go into the code and logs to verify the authenticity of the claim. You'd be surprised at how often I find that people are simply misinformed. This is the real reason why I am so emphatic about declarations of fact about "common knowledge". When they are wrong or inaccurate, it leads to problems. People who are misrepresented get upset and lash back and a vicious cycle of infighting begins. So what can we do about it?

Well, I think a wiki is great because it will establish for the Genesis population what is once and for all correct public information. I hope that people don't feel the moderators of the official forums have been going overboard with censoring information. For the most part, we are just trying to ensure that the Forums continue to be a positive place for discussing ideas that will advance the game. A couple of threads (as some have discovered) have deviated from this purpose and leads to pissing matches between posters.

Assuming we get a Wiki started, the administrators of the Wiki will attempt to take the same approach of minimal intervention. I do feel that players can do far more than wizards can in providing the information that players need to learn the world and interact with it. I trust that those who spend their time to write articles like Rhynox has, are interested in bettering the game, and not ruining it for others. Any intervention will mostly be centered around correcting misinformation. I hope that puts some of these fears at ease.

So the summary at the end of this really long and probably hard to read post? I think a Wiki is a great idea, and I hope that it will establish a forum for players to contribute and share knowledge with one another in a constructive manner. I foresee that intervention in terms of moderation will be extremely limited and will be directed to correct misinformation rather than censorship.

Thoughts?

Petros

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Forum moderation

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 14 Mar 2010 15:44

Tried starting a Wiki on wikia..
http://genesismud.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Mixed success, idea was welcomed but no-one else seemed to have much interest to contribute.

But if we look at how much the forum has taken off here, lots of postings flying about, perhaps it is a good time to try again.
So do you want to host one on this server?

Interesting, saw this to... Genesis page on the MUD wiki
http://mud.wikia.com/wiki/Genesis
http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/
Join up and help each other with Quests :)

Rhynox
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
Location: Departed from here. Meet at Genesis!

Re: Forum moderation

Post by Rhynox » 14 Mar 2010 17:32

Tarax the Terrible wrote:Tried starting a Wiki on wikia..
http://genesismud.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Mixed success, idea was welcomed but no-one else seemed to have much interest to contribute.

But if we look at how much the forum has taken off here, lots of postings flying about, perhaps it is a good time to try again.
So do you want to host one on this server?
I hate Wikia as a wiki server.
Tarax the Terrible wrote:Interesting, saw this to... Genesis page on the MUD wiki
http://mud.wikia.com/wiki/Genesis
Picked from the article I rewrote for Wikipedia.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Forum moderation

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 14 Mar 2010 20:13

Interesting.
http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/
Join up and help each other with Quests :)

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/