Statcap

[Rhaegar]

You forget to close the [sarcasm] tag there

[Greywolf]

while working on a stat cap remember to remove any race-bonuses/drawbacks currently in place
why have them if everybody would be capped at the same level anyway ... humans "evenly" setting for the win ...

what else ... re-balance WHOLE combat, because there'd be no bonus for playing fighter races anymore anyway ... or do you want exceptions from the rule (like ogres?)

I would like to see a size cap rather than stat cap. When you achieve a certain amount of experience you stop growing and your stats are locked at whatever level they happen to be at (until a death occurs). That way all the racial/occupation/ differences remain. Ogres are still really strong and really stupid, magic users could still have high mentals, etc.

oh and re-balance WHOLE Gen again, so that ppl with lower stats can acquire some of the current gear ...

I don't think anyone needs to be downgraded. Make the size cap at whatever size the largest character is/was. That way no one looses anything or is punished with suddenly smaller stats and everyone can still get the same gear they do now. The game would basically stay the same as it is now.

aaaaand - say goodbye to many people who spent large amounts of time grinding their ways up

I don't think many people who play regularly will leave. I think many more people would start playing again and play more frequently if there were a size cap.

...who are you to suddenly penalize them for having the time/macros/friends/skills (macro coding skills included) that you don't have?

I am a nobody...but...

I don't think people should have been allowed to grow the way they have over the last 10 years. I think that it causes fundamental problems with game playability for most people who play, have played, or will play genesis. I think more people have left genesis for reasons related to unlimited growth/growth problems then all other problems combined. Allowing people to continue to grow and widen the gap between new and old players only makes the problems worse.

If a size cap is put in place that doesn't make anyone smaller then there is no punishment. If there are people who don't think playing Genesis is fun if they can't be the biggest character around then they shouldn't play.

Just like all the people who chose not to play because the mindless grinding year after year was not fun.

Or all the new players who stoped playing when they found themselves at extremely violent and spending hours exploring/examining/searching/mapping areas just to do a quest that gives them next to nothing was just not fun.

Or all the new players who stopped playing because they quickly came to realize that it would take years to achieve a size that could compete with the largest players in the game and this really wouldn't be that fun.

I think a size cap and fundamental changes to the way characters grow has the potential to make Genesis a more fun, more interesting, more playable, more easily marketable game with more people playing it.

I think the status quo has shaped genesis into a game of super large grinders that unbalance the playerbase and make a very poor environment for new players to grow and develop in.

[Greywolf]

Lets try and settle this once and for all...

We all know everyone who continues to play Genesis does so for the fun of grinding and racing to be largest. None of that other stuff about roleplay, guild dynamics, exploration, personal achievement, etc. is crucial to keeping login numbers high, which is the true test of success. This is why those players who are logged in 24-hours a day, most of those hours grinding endlessly even after they have reach mythical proportions, are our most valuable assets. Doing anything to disturb their motivation would be a disaster. We need to do as much as possible to ensure mindless bot-like behavior is accepted, so long as their desk job actually enables them to monitor their character, so that we do not loose our stranglehold on those players who play only to gain tremendous advantage through endless scripted killing.

This is clearly why a stat cap has never been implemented and never should be.

An alternative approach would be encouraging people to spend quality time playing, enjoying peaceful relaxation living a fantasy or exciting and tactical confrontation and conquest, all out of the immediate pleasure. But with the knowledge that people are out there gaining advantage with every trigger, those with any sense of competition cannot rest easily and savor such game elements. That would require a stat cap that limited such advantage and we've already established that is not something we want.

Case close. Settled. No stat cap.

Brilliant!!!

[Maizara]

aaaaand - say goodbye to many people who spent large amounts of time grinding their ways up ... who are you to suddenly penalize them for having the time/macros/friends/skills (macro coding skills included) that you don't have?

ps.: Fourt got it quite well there, except I myself wouldn't go for any "remort" - this is not WoW, where I have the time to start another and another and another char with my BOA sets of gear

Your right its much better to tell new players "Hey enjoy the game but realize you will never reach the level some of the older players have! Oh and they will always have an advantage over you so just accept the fact that you will be second best unless you put about 10 years worth of time into the game, then you will reach where they were 10 years ago!"

Yeah... great pick up line for new players, I know I would just be dying to play this game

Remorting would be cool, maybe some "true" racial skills could be implemented like perma darkvision for a few levels, +dodge, harder skin, abilities to cast faster or spells do more damage

[Laurel]

afaik Irk is not even remotely close to many other old chars in terms of "years spent", but he still managed to out-grow a significant number of old farts ... same with Zin and his toons or even Saya/Freya like chars ... I miss Treo!
just grow in a relatively safe (inagressive) guild and you can grind your ass off for quite a few months = quite big myth

don't come with that crap about "you will never reach them" - it's simply not true
if you fail on that topic it doesn't mean others do as well ...

[Tive]

In most books and stories there are some heroes, much more powerful than mere mortals. I doubt having huge players around would discourage newcomers from playing. At least it never did that to me.

So using this as an argument is flawed.

Just admit you are selfishly thinking about yourself ;P

[Sharn]

I mean that people are overoptimistic that you can still bring number of new people, who never played MUDs before, to Genesis. So losing old players would actually be noticable and introducing a statcap would be just asking for it. Working for a game developer I showed Genesis to some people in the office (some of them played MUDs before) and even if they are quite open minded, they were not really interested and i dont think they tried it after my initial 'demo'. You may argue with me, but I think reality is quite harsh.

Wise words. I could not express it better.

This is why those players who are logged in 24-hours a day, most of those hours grinding endlessly even after they have reach mythical proportions, are our most valuable assets. Doing anything to disturb their motivation would be a disaster. We need to do as much as possible to ensure mindless bot-like behavior is accepted, so long as their desk job actually enables them to monitor their character, so that we do not loose our stranglehold on those players who play only to gain tremendous advantage through endless scripted killing.

1. It is a generalization.
Some people earned their experience through 24-hour a day grind but many more have earned it through years of play.
You have to be very careful with changes like that or else you will do more harm then good.
Experiments like that (major changes in gameplay after years) have destroyed a few MMO's with healthy, counting hundreds thousends of players, populations.
Simply, you have to respect your players and especially your veterans. If they will leave, noone will come.

2. To have a statcap, there has to be an "end game" first.
Surely, there is roleplay and other activities to perform in Genesis.
But, there has to be something for everyone, powerplayers too.
Powerplayers are significant part of population in any game I know, you cannot just get rid of them.
With statcap, there will be no "end game" in the means of improving your character.
Making your character more and more powerful is base for all fantasy roleplaying games.

To sum things up:
I am not against the statcap entirely, but there is no easy solution like some would like to picture it.
The idea presented by the original poster wont change anything in my opinion.
Actually I believe that most powerful players will be first to complete the "stat quests" and the size difference will actually grow, rather then decrease.

In the past on various forums there were ideas about increasing the experience gain for characters below the average size (small players).
I like that idea more then the statcap, considering the state the game is now.

[Sharn]

In most books and stories there are some heroes, much more powerful than mere mortals. I doubt having huge players around would discourage newcomers from playing. At least it never did that to me.

So using this as an argument is flawed.

Just admit you are selfishly thinking about yourself ;P

Actually, some people think:
One day I will become huge myth myself. I will kill five myths with my left hand and 3 with my right hand.
And some even succeed
In any game there will always be people better then you.
In roleplaying games time spend on improving your character pays.

[Maizara]

afaik Irk is not even remotely close to many other old chars in terms of "years spent", but he still managed to out-grow a significant number of old farts ... same with Zin and his toons or even Saya/Freya like chars ... I miss Treo!
just grow in a relatively safe (inagressive) guild and you can grind your ass off for quite a few months = quite big myth

don't come with that crap about "you will never reach them" - it's simply not true
if you fail on that topic it doesn't mean others do as well ...

So.. tell me, who can hold a candle to Xar or will be able to long as he keeps playing?

Thats right... no one in game is even remotely close, but your completely right! How stupid of me and my failing ways!

And thus you just proved my point, how long has Irk been going at it? And he still is below characters that aren't even playing anymore and havent in a few years? How far below Xar was Saya I wonder?

This way of gaming is highly unattractive to new players who play for a bit then realize they will never be able to reach that limit without many many years of time and effort. Hell even in most MMO RPG's it takes less then a year to hit the top level most being a few months, after that its based upon your pvp stats, wealth, guild status, items.

Your stuck in the past which is unfortunate for a game that needs to keep whats attractive and move ahead with the times to keep new players.

[Maizara]

In most books and stories there are some heroes, much more powerful than mere mortals. I doubt having huge players around would discourage newcomers from playing. At least it never did that to me.

So using this as an argument is flawed.

Just admit you are selfishly thinking about yourself ;P

And no im thinking about the several new players who tell me Genesis is fucking stupid and who wants to spend years playing that when they can go RP on a different game and spend maybe a year getting to the top level.