Statcap

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Makfly
Champion
Posts: 598
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36

Re: Statcap

Post by Makfly » 23 Jun 2010 07:04

velicus wrote:No, that is against the rules. And even if Gorboth doesn't kill you, you will be killed by your competition. Even in the newbie area, it asks, "Grinding. A necessary evil?" If you find grinding to be anything but work, I suspect you have severe OCD or some other psychological ailment.
Yep, we all know scripting is against the rules...Kind of like sharing quest solutions...

It seems you equal "boring" with "work". I totally agree that it's incredibly boring, but what I meant was that it doesn't actually require effort like an actual job.
Ofcourse someone could have a job that was both as boring and required as little effort as grinding in Genesis, but if so, they have my sympathies :)

Again, I equaled "work" with "effort" (physical / mental effort), not "work" with "boredom", and so didn't equal grinding in Genesis with being "work".


Apart from that, I agree with you. Who are these "hardcore" people, and more over, if Gorboth's goal of doubling the population within the next year...Can the game even afford to cater to such a small percentage, that may or may not exist, when it stands in the way of making the game more appealing to new players

I can understand all the Legends and Myths posting doom & gloom in this thread, it's only natural, but if the game have to have a future, "business as usual" is not the way to go.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Laurel

Re: Statcap

Post by Laurel » 23 Jun 2010 09:23

why exactly do you think that the only future for Genesis is listening to those who fail at grinding while muting out those who don't?
who are you guys to say what appeals to Xar and what doesn't?
who are you to tell all those who didn't fail at grinding that they are not welcome in "your" game anymore (if they don't accept "your" terms)?

Ilrahil

Re: Statcap

Post by Ilrahil » 23 Jun 2010 11:01

Well Laurel.. I liked your original standpoint. But why don't you just tell Xar to come post on the forum if he wants to say something. I am sick of reading his messages through youl

Laurel

Re: Statcap

Post by Laurel » 23 Jun 2010 11:12

I state my own opinions but I HATE it when people tell others what's best for them and what said others should like/dislike - that's all

Sharn
Expert
Posts: 289
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:34

Re: Statcap

Post by Sharn » 23 Jun 2010 11:16

Yeah, I do not like the: "we do not need these players and these players" and "the game should be only for these players" attitude.

I agree with the Genesis rules: those who ruin the fun of others should be removed.
All others are welcome.

Velicus
Apprentice
Posts: 44
Joined: 12 May 2010 11:56

Re: Statcap

Post by Velicus » 23 Jun 2010 13:38

Laurel wrote:why exactly do you think that the only future for Genesis is listening to those who fail at grinding while muting out those who don't?
Define "fail at grinding." I've never seen a metric. I'd like to see you come up with one where you're ahead of me. Xar is even behind many people if current size isn't a factor.
Laurel wrote:who are you guys to say what appeals to Xar and what doesn't?
Who are you to question other people's understanding on human psychology? I, personally, have no problem speculating. And if you didn't notice, I also suggested just asking him. Personally, if the answer was "nothing could replace the joy of grinding" I either wouldn't believe him or think he should be restricted from the game for a while for his own mental health.
Laurel wrote:who are you to tell all those who didn't fail at grinding that they are not welcome in "your" game anymore (if they don't accept "your" terms)?
Who are you accusing of saying this? I only see two types of people here... the people who want a statcap who are working toward finding solutions that will make everyone happy... and the people who don't want a statcap and resort to making false accusations, putting words in other people's mouths, and asking loaded questions, e.g. you. I'm left to suspect the people who can't defend their views with reason are acting out of self-interest rather than community. I can't make you want to stop being selfish, so I am just trying to get to the bottom of what _else_ you might want so you can win in your own way and the rest of us can start having more fun. I am not angry at grinders for doing the things to get them the most advantage in the game... I'm angry at the wizards for lacking the foresight to stop it (which many players have complained about for many years) and letting it continue.

Creed

Re: Statcap

Post by Creed » 23 Jun 2010 14:14

sharn wrote:Yeah, I do not like the: "we do not need these players and these players" and "the game should be only for these players" attitude.

I agree with the Genesis rules: those who ruin the fun of others should be removed.
All others are welcome.
And then we have to define fun.
My fun is ruined when someone attacks me.
But I am fairly sure that all the PvP'ers are not removed.

If we go down that way, making all kinds of rules, then Genesis will be dead in a year. If it takes that long.

Sharn
Expert
Posts: 289
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:34

Re: Statcap

Post by Sharn » 23 Jun 2010 15:01

Creed wrote:
sharn wrote:Yeah, I do not like the: "we do not need these players and these players" and "the game should be only for these players" attitude.

I agree with the Genesis rules: those who ruin the fun of others should be removed.
All others are welcome.
And then we have to define fun.
My fun is ruined when someone attacks me.
But I am fairly sure that all the PvP'ers are not removed.

If we go down that way, making all kinds of rules, then Genesis will be dead in a year. If it takes that long.
Good point. It is hard if not impossible to define "fun".
I think the rules are fine.
Many people would like the possibility to opt out of PvP and I know you and me are among them.

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Mersereau
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Re: Statcap

Post by Mersereau » 23 Jun 2010 16:52

velicus wrote:
Makfly wrote:It isn't "work" to grind endlessly, as mentioned above, hell you can script to make the game play itself, while you sleep or watch a movie, or do actual work.
No, that is against the rules. And even if Gorboth doesn't kill you, you will be killed by your competition. Even in the newbie area, it asks, "Grinding. A necessary evil?" If you find grinding to be anything but work, I suspect you have severe OCD or some other psychological ailment.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)
Earth wrote:If you place a hard cap, those who are hardcore players will reach it then be "done" with the game and leave.
I think if I were Xar and I was the first person to "win" the game and couldn't grow any further, I, as a ranger, would probably go terrorize the Morgul Mages and their various allies until a team managed to band together and kill me, whereupon I could resume grinding. As a player, that would all be very exciting and adrenaline-pumping. I certainly wouldn't say, "Oh, I'm at the top... better quit now" unless I had a heart condition. I can't honestly believe that encouraging Xar continue to generate heaps of corpses all day will make the game better for him or anyone else.

There are many ways to encourage people to keep playing. Anyone who insists that they can think of nothing feasible to replace the pleasure to be had grinding yourself to a bigger size is, as best as I can tell, lying to us or themselves.

And if all else fails, ask the big people what kind of end-game would encourage them to keep playing. Who are these people anyway, who want to keep grinding? I can't get over that. When do we get to talk to them?
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Greywolf
Adventurer
Posts: 97
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 04:25

Re: Statcap

Post by Greywolf » 23 Jun 2010 17:14

Makfly wrote:Who are these "hardcore" people, and more over, if Gorboth's goal of doubling the population within the next year...Can the game even afford to cater to such a small percentage, that may or may not exist, when it stands in the way of making the game more appealing to new players

I can understand all the Legends and Myths posting doom & gloom in this thread, it's only natural, but if the game have to have a future, "business as usual" is not the way to go.
Exactly.

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