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Posted: 20 Jun 2010 19:48
by Rhaegar
Now, that I have your attention...

Note: It's just a crazy idea, it's a very delicate subject so there's probably going to be some heated discussion around this subject, try to remain calm. No one is probably going to implement it anyway.

So, the basics:


People have started to grow really huge, and the game wasn't really designed to handle this, which results in complaints about:
- no "endgame" content
- excessive grinding
- degradation of pfighting (less pfighting with less effect and most people, especially new ones, who'd want to participate in it would have to spend months first on excessive grinding just to catch up to the current "pfight capable" standards)
- less teaming (why team when you can handle everything alone?)

Baaah, you want to take away my supreme stats?! Nooooo!!!

Don't panic, read on.

The system

All stats are capped at the maximum level in "levels statx" (titanic, acrobatic etc.), but the stat-shadow (explained later) keeps increasing with exp normally.
The quests to "unlock" higher stats would be made available. One quest for one level of each stat (ie: epic strength quest, immortal dex quest and so on).
There would be a quest for each stat and each level above max (epic, immortal, supreme if memory serves). Each quest would be epic adventure that could take a long time to do, the reward would be increased statcap instead of exp.

Some examples

Example 1: Current myth with uber stats gets hit with the statcap.

- all stats drop to maximum standard levels (below epic)
- his mortal level remains myth
- his stat-shadow remains at the level of his usual stats and keeps increasing with experience

- when he does the epic x quest, stat x automatically increases to epic, the same thing happens after finishing the immortal and supreme quests

Example 2: New character facing statcap.

- stats increase normally until maximum standard level, after that, only the stat-shadow keeps increasing
- when stat x reaches maximum level, character is eligible to undertake the epic quest for it

- after completing the quest, the stat will continue to increase up to epic normally (or is automatically set to the level of stat-shadow if it's higher than max level and lower or equal to epic)

All mortal levels would be tracked by stat-shadow and not current stats. Also, death would affect stat-shadow.
You won't be able to undertake the stat quests before you reached maximum cap for stat (ie: you can't just go and do epic, immo and sup quests at say veteran and get over with it).

Some positive effects

- bringing everyone on more or less the same level at start (letting people catch up)
- encouraged teaming (as people wouldn't be able to solo stuff they could before with reduced stats)
- the element of "unknown" (yeah, he's a myth which means he can have supreme stats, but what if he didn't complete the necessary quests?)
- encouraging people to play more (god damnit, I must finish this quest, I want my uber stats!)
- a sense of elitism (fuck yeah! I completed all the stat quests!)

Some negative effects

- top grinders would definitely be disappointed (at least at start) with their reduced capabilities
- some people might find it uninteresting to have to do this quests instead of just grinding your way to the top


As you can see, it is a form of "soft" capping the stats, a temporary thing. Nothing to be scared of in the long run and that could create some truly hilarious and awesome moments.

Re: Statcap

Posted: 20 Jun 2010 19:54
by Alorrana

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 01:03
by Mersereau

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 06:19
by Rhaegar
I appreciate your deep insight on the subject. Care to elaborate even more?

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 07:16
by Makfly
It seems like an awful lot of work, for something that is going to lead us right back to where we are now, in but a couple of months.
"Big epic quests" basically just means longer quest solutions going around. Especially quests of this importance will be solved quickly and shared viciously...And then we're right back with the same problem that we have now.
So from my perspective, it doesn't solve anything at all, it only postpones a problem for a few months (if that), at the cost of alot of wizard hours, which are very scarce these days.

If you really want a stat-cap, make it so that anything above epic X doesn't factor in when fighting another player. Any epic and immortal and supreme stats should count maybe 5-10% of what a normal statlevel would in everything else (NPC fights etc), so that the higher stats will help some, but not a whole lot.

Ofcourse some solo-grinding super myths might quit the game in a hissy fit, but would the loss really be felt by the general population?
Would the loss be acceptable, if the status-quo is deemed to be unacceptable?
Or maybe just unsellable, when we think about how to persuade new players to join us?

Personally I think actual _balance_ is pretty scary and undesirable for some people, that the wish to do something about this age old problem, needs to come from the top, not from the bottom, because ideas like this would probably be shot down by the vocal minority here. :)

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 07:30
by Rhaegar
Well, I was thinking about the epic quests being more of the Zodiac style (ie: you can make walkthroughs with where to go and what to do, but figuring out how to do it would be all up to you - Porcia's room is great example here).

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 10:43
by Tarax the Terrible
But but but but I want to be awesome!!

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 10:46
by Greywolf
Tarax the Terrible wrote:But but but but I want to be awesome!!
No...I wont say's just to easy....

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 11:28
by Greywolf
I have played since 98 and I have always had the opinion that no statcap was the single biggest game design flaw in Genesis. Not only that I thought it was kinda self evident. The kinda flaw that stands out, kicks you in the ass and says HEY!!! SMEGHEAD!!! FIX ME ALREADY!!! But so many people were/are so adamantly against it I figured I must be missing something.

Then a couple years back Rhynox posted a great note about it in sparkle and I think Gorboth had a pretty positive response to it and I thought finally!!! But then nothing....

So here is why I think not having a statcap is really bad.

I believe that for the vast majority of people who have played Genesis in the past, play now, or will play in the future, the single most important, character defining quality, is size.
Not everyone feels this way, I know, but people who are really not concerned about size are few and far between.

I also believe that more people have left genesis (really left and not come back) because of growth related issues then all other reasons combined.

And I also think these two beliefs are obvious and irrefutable, despite not having a shred of hard data, and nothing anyone has said in the past 12 years has even come close to changing my mind. And despite all that has been said about the subject over the years there are only two reasons that I can think of for why stats have not already been capped.

The first is that there exists some underlying philosophic or existential or metaphysical reasoning beyond my understanding that demands the status quo. This actually may be the case, and if so I will continue playing in my not so blissful, somewhat frustrated state of ignorance.

The second is that it was believed that a large number of people might actually stop playing if they were not allowed to continue to grind away, growing ever so slowly.

Well, all I have to say about that is the door should have hit them on the ass years ago because I also firmly believe that more people would come back to genesis, more people would would play more frequently and most importantly more new people would start to play genesis and continue to play genesis for a significant amount of time than would ever leave because of a statcap.

Re: Statcap

Posted: 21 Jun 2010 11:37
by Tive
Well, changing the mortal levels was bad too, it made people grind even more. I bet that some of the myths would be happy if there were even more levels added though...

But I think it is too late now for introducing statcap.