Magic & spells

[Booger]

I have NO knowledge about this, so might be totally off, but still want to vent some thought after reading something Tarax wrote about magic...
First of all, I really hope that with these recodes you immortals are working on, you'll make magic standardized, somehow inheriting basic things to make sure magic works the same way everywhere, handles casting while stunned/blinded/panicking etc similarly, lists spells in the same way, and so on and so on.
But what I was really pondering was the possibility of adding one generic spell for each magic group, and a couple extra that could be learned by exploration.
The idea would be that as soon as you learn one magic area, you'll also get _one_ spell for that area. Something weak, that would be more of a fun thing than an actual boost. And here and there in the world there would be people that could teach you a few more spells, without you having to be member of a magic using guild. So by just exploring a bit, and provided you have some skill in the area, you can learn a few spells.

Example: When you learn Fire magic, you'll also learn the spell "Illuminate", which, when cast, will work as a 1second-duration torch. You see the description of the room as if you had lit a small torch and typed "look". The room is still as dark as before, and if the room is more that one-level dark, you'll still only see darkness.
Then, out in the world, there are a couple of npc:s that will (for free, for money, or for getting some task done) teach you a few more spells, eg:
* Fry: Will make any body part into a fried body part: "a goblin ear" => "a fried goblin ear", "a gnome finger" => "a fried gnome finger". The bonuses will be that they will taste slightly better (so no real bonus there), and that they won't decompose if you drop them (not sure, but I guess this has pretty small bonuses).
* Light: Will create light around you, lasting 30 seconds + 10 seconds per skill level (as useful as bringing an extra torch). NOT stackable to make the room several steps brighter.

For earth you could, eg, have a spell that insta-grows a small plant that you can eat (gratis food), another that lets you dig a hole that stays open for a minute, in which you can put items. Once the hole disappears the items destruct (portable trashcan)

For water, a spell to create a glass of water (oohh, the POWER!;)). For air, a spell to make the weather slightly better/worse. For death, a spell to wither the plants in the room (same effect as if you just pick all herbs in the room). For life, a spell to restore your fatigue (this one might be too good).

I hope you understand that the idea is to have some WEAK spells that will not in any way compete with a real magic user. I understand that this will still take away some of the glory of being a spellcaster when suddenly everyone can cast spells. Hopefully the fun people will have, getting to try some small forms of magic, will make it still worth the cons.
EDIT: This should have been put in the Suggestions group, I guess. Sorry.

[petros]

Booger, these are pretty neat ideas that you are posting. You are correct in assuming that the general framework will allow for a common set of rules to apply across all spells. This is very similar to the effort that was done to consolidate rules for combat specials.

The ideas about having some sort of basic spell that could be cast once you learn a magical skill should be debated. I would venture to say that just because you have skill in a magic element skill doesn't mean that you actually have the ability to create the magical effect. Depending on the "theme" of magic, the source of that magic could come from a divine source or a natural source. For example, a cleric may obtain all their abilities from their deity. They learn the skills while they are in the guild, but when they leave, they lose those capabilities because they no longer worship that deity. So they may know all the "skill" related actions to effect the spell, but the source of that power no longer exists.

That being said, I'm not against some very simple stuff that everyone can do once they learn some magical skill. They can even be more emote like, rather than real effects that change the environment in a meaningful way.

Edit: Made some wording changes to make the post a bit more clear

[Kitriana]

*like button*

[Tarax the Terrible]

I like the idea. Its nice fluff for the environment.
And i'd argue they should add some little utility too. Definitely more than just emotes.

In a bunch of worlds full of magic its nice even for dumb fighters to get a bit of wizbang fun.
With imbuements etc we are creating a much more feature rich and deep experience for those who want to dabble. Why not include adventurer/quest spells.

I think Booger's Illuminate spell is a great idea.
Its not over powered and very handy to a beginner.
"Ohh i am in a dark hole", where was it they said they sold torches again. Wait how do i get out?
Or "oh crap I am attacked in darkness", illuminate hmm its a nasty orc, light gone back to blindfighting it is.
Put it on a cooldown. No big deal, afterall there are other quest rewards which produce light.
Its not a copy of the defunct monks halo.

I think when the new magic system comes on line if this small perk was made available to the general population it would be a positive thing.

Also out of interest.
Is the dusty old tome and cadu beggars spell going to be brought across to the new system?
They are examples of quest reward spells.
The melt tome spell arguably rivals the power of an occ/lay lvl spell.

Personally I think Earthsea would be a good domain tie in for many basic new spells. from wikipedia

Magic is a central part of life in most of Earthsea, with the exception of the Kargish lands, where it is banned. There are weather workers on ships, fixers who repair boats and buildings, entertainers, and court sorcerers. Magic is an inborn talent which can be developed with training. The most gifted are sent to the school on Roke, where, if their skill and their discipline prove sufficient, they can become staff-carrying wizards.

But say that we have other domains where the theme is no magic, maybe Avenir... don't know.
Perhaps some of the spells would fail there.
"You cannot feel the flow of the earth's threads of power in this unfortunate place."

Lastly I would say that the spells should improve on a use curve.
So first 20 uses of illuminate see only "You manage to product a little smoke from your fingertips"
Progress through sparks, then a flicker flame, later a little fireball and finally a flash after 100s of uses. Most would cause the same effect just it looks cooler.
Perhaps once you master a spell you get the option to cast the "grandis" version.
eg cast illuminate grandis 4 times the mana cost for a bigger show off effect.
"A dark room.
>cast illuminate grandis
> Your speak a word in the language of the making.
There is a blinding flash and you are suddenly surrounded by a flaming aura!
A filthy orc cave.
There is one obvious exit:out.
A tiny black-skinned orc and a puny black-skinned orc.
>
Your dancing flames throw out light so bright all others have to shield their eyes.
The tiny black-skinned orc quivers like a bowl full of jelly.
The puny black-skinned orc panics and looks for a place to hide.
Your aura collapses in on itself and flames around you disappear as quickly as they arrived.
You feel mentally drained from your display.
>
light lamp
You light an iron oil lamp.
>look
A filthy orc cave.
There is one obvious exit:out.
A tiny black-skinned orc and a puny black-skinned orc.
A patch of scorched earth.
"

[Bromen]

Well, through the adventurer guilds, we do learn a small amount of magic skill and the fact we can't use it in
any form kinda sucks. I'd love an illuminate spell to be a quest reward, maybe with the right imbuements, the
spell power can increase and evolve the spell into nightvision or a 2-3 second blind on target.

-B

[petros]

Well, through the adventurer guilds, we do learn a small amount of magic skill and the fact we can't use it in
any form kinda sucks. I'd love an illuminate spell to be a quest reward, maybe with the right imbuements, the
spell power can increase and evolve the spell into nightvision or a 2-3 second blind on target.

-B

Nightvision or blind are far too powerful to be a spell that someone can cast without being a part of a guild. So let's take that off the table right now. For illumination, there are definitely quest items out there that already provide this. The most obvious one being the zodiac quest.

I've tried to differentiate magical skill from magical source. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you don't have access to the source of magic, you won't be able to do anything magical. Without a guild's unique theme, access to a source of magic will be very limited. I'm not against minor cool effects that will improve gameplay. But let's focus on the experience (of which emotes make up a large portion).

By the way, while there will be a consolidation of item spells vs guild spells, that process will not be immediate, and will most likely take some time to occur. Things like the dusty old tome and other item spells will remain as they are until the entire magic system is up and running across guilds.

[Zestana]

I wonder then what the purpose of individual spell skills will be at that point then? Would it not be better to just negate those skills and only have adventurer guilds teach generic spellcraft at that point?

I suppose this request falls in line with the uselessness of imbuements increasing those stat sets but not any other ones.

[Tarax the Terrible]

For the fighter's brain types among us I think I can translate what Petros is saying.
You might be great with a sword, but you need a sword in your hand to be able to use that skill.
So for magic you need........

A wand.

Simple.

[Strider]

I wonder then what the purpose of individual spell skills will be at that point then? Would it not be better to just negate those skills and only have adventurer guilds teach generic spellcraft at that point?

If magical weapons, for instance, are a source of magic (or alternatively, a conduit to a source of magic) it may be reasonable to require skills to coax an effect from it.

Further, the only benefits from various magic skills need not be for casting. Arguably, it could require some spellcraft skill to even identify someone is casting, or having knowledge of fire spells could reasonably provide some minor protection from a fireball, either by allowing the usage of magical or mundane counters or simply as an expression of knowledge.

[gorboth]

I love this thread.