Pkill Spree Offenders Punished

[Targun]

Zhar, I'd like to ask you to read more carefully. You just went on some kind of a rampage, accusing me of things I have never- not in my life said- and which has totally no relevance to my note. I'd like to, again, kindly ask you, not to do that, as this might be- trust me- mildly insulting for someone.

If you code such an area, where a player is warned upon entering the house with e.g. 'Leave this place at once, I do not like you in my house.'/'Leave or I'll show you the door the hard way'/ fine. If a player wanders into a room, nothing happens and he has to go afk, he should have the full right to do so.

Of course, if an aggressive patrol comes, or his player enemy shows up and kills him. That's perfectly fine. Noone ever said a word about AFK flags. Which is the fist time you suggested I said something I never did. You stretched this even further with making idlers and scripters equal. Which again never came from beneath my fingers.

Scripters should be dealt with the most harsh way possible. They are like a vermin to the game and should be ridden off, because they discourage people who actually play the game. They are no hardcore players, they are bots. Those bots destroy balance and piss of those who actually play the game. Moreover, if you have any RL life you cannot compete with a bot. Idlers?- how can anyone mind them. They just stand and are inattentive. No harm being done.

The thing that you seem not to grasp, is that people who really play the game dedicate a lot of their RL life time to build their character. This is the very reason why their time should be treated with respect. Therefore, a death while fighting yeti, a dragon, some guards... Yes, by all means. Death through PvP- yes by all means.

On the other hand. Quests and areas punishing someone's curiosity with e.g. death through coming north, should be ridden of ASAP. Your key on the keyboard may just have got stuck and you went north twice instead of once and you die, this is just disrespectful and no wonder players don't buy this approach.

This is especially important that there is no consequence in the way things are coded and descriptions might be very misleading. One time the description may say, that proceeding further <somewhere> will certainly mean your death, only to build an atmosphere, while the road is perfectly safe. The other time it may say, the stairs are really steep and the cilmb up will surely be exhausting and you may fell from them and die. Yet, even other time, you might see an endless cliff with hardly anywhere to find a grip, which any attempt to get past would result in your death- and you can climb it thousand of times, not even knowing, you just got past such a thing.

There are many ways to punish players in such situations. Their equipment can be broken beyond repari as they fall. They might have to start a quest all over again, etc. However there cannot be some hidden random scripts in npcs, that make them attack a player, while he had to leave the computer for 10 minutes. Because we've got RL lives and we need to go sometimes afk. Yes, thsi takes risk e.g. patrols, PvP, but that's got to be within reasonable limits. Otherwise such stupid death's with no enough warnings given, will continue to make players leave the game, which I hardly believe should be anybody's aim.

As you perhaps might see, this is quite the different thing than you pretended to make my words. Quoting the BBT classic 'reductio ad absurdum' is not the way to have any discussion. I want to point here I am not familiar with the details of this particular situation and I was merely voicing my- generalised- opinion.

[Zhar]

I was also voicing my generalised opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I disagree on idlers being harmless though, throughout the history there's been a lot of banter about guild leaders (for example) doing nothing but idling instead of doing what they should. It is really disheartening when you see council members of a guild logged in for days on end who don't even bother to answer the mail.

As to the 'key being stuck' arguments and such, this are accidents, they will happen. Even in IRL stupid accidents (or curiosity) lead to injury or death, similarly the game can't protect you from such things. The 'hidden code' in NPCs that makes them attack idlers is nothing new really, go to Kabal and stand around the demons long enough and they will surely attack you and poison you. Discovering which NPCs do that and which don't is a part of the experience.

If you think that some NPC behaviour is buggy or not working as intended you can always report it, if it's indeed faulty it will be fixed.

Your post also shows how experiences differ from person to person. I've dedicated x-teen years of my life to Genesis, and IRL I'm a father of 2 and the problems you're describing have never bothered me so much. How do we solve this then? Who should we cater to when coding new stuff? There are no simple answers here.

[Laurel]

It is really disheartening when you see council members of a guild logged in for days on end who don't even bother to answer the mail.

it's much more disheartening to see hordes of seconds apply to your guild, take your (and other ppl's) time, be accepted and go inactive forever or login for just enough time to "break" (as in take away and not return) the best gear there is and similar "friendly" and "fond" actions

thx for proving me (once again) right to ignore you, by going after one of the more valuable and respectful posters on this forum

[Zhar]

Dear Laurel, I didn't go after anyone. I am just trying to have a discussion here (you know, arguments, counter-arguments and such) to perhaps see things from a different perspective.

The matter of seconds and alts joining the guild and going inactive or stealing equipment isn't a new thing either. Most guilds have means of punishing such behaviour, but this requires an active council. Activity at the top of guild hierarchy can also mean a more thorough and proper application process, reducing the chance of unwanted persons being accepted.

But, again, this is just my opinion and you have full right to disagree with me here.

[Makfly]

Targun, seriously - You said were under a poison effect that makes you randomly wimpy, you then go AFK next to the Warden.
You wimpy north, the Warden warns you not to go there. You wimpy north again, you get attacked and you die - All because you are AFK.

Sure it sucks you died, but you can hardly fault the game for your unfortunate mistake of going AFK in the wrong place with the wrong effect running.
Everything was working as intended.

If you happen to stand next to the Warden and you hit it twice by accident, you can run away - If you are actually at the keyboard and not AFK. So it's not like it's '2xnorth=insta-death.'

[Kas]

If you have the privilege to enter Minas Morgul, you can safely idle anywhere you see fit, with the possible exception of within the tower. (yeah, afk'ish mortals with zombielike tedencies that interrupts bigger events in the throneroom tends to end up as potion ingredients)

If you absolutely still insist to idle somewhere within, and you suffer from something whimping you around, our dungeon(prisoners area) is a fine place to stay put, especially if you close the trapdoor.

Morgul apprentices may arrive for their regular anatomical studies there, but atleast you should be slightly safer than constantly irritating the warden(which has little or no patience) with zombielike uncontrolled behaviour.

[Targun]

I just gave an example from some years ago. But there are many more, like quests, or going some directon and falling. Etc. The ground rule is. Wziards should really be careful when deciding when do do_die player. Simply because it is much better when they die PvPing or trying on some epic mobs, rather then tapping 4 on their numering keyboard twice instead of once.

EDIT:
Just for the record, warden hunts so it's like you may or you may not ; ). And yes, guild masters who do not respond to mails etc. are definetely a problem. Although it's not like they need to idle. Whether they log in for 2s each month, or leave their chars on tick 7days a week, doesn't change anything.

Still, I'm not sure which is better; hardly active but responsible guildmaster, or situation like in BDA, when once I've counted something like 8-9 Generals over 1 year period. Probably none of these are positive, but at the same time they relate to the fairly different problem- guild leaders attitude.