Character size inflation

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Bendis
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Bendis » 15 Aug 2012 13:54

Here is a simple idea that would require no coding :).

Let's make a list of quests, in the order they should be done, so the player doesn't lose exp points for doing the quest too early (i think i lost half of the points of the zodiac quest 10+ years ago :))

We would need to capture this information:

Domain, Quest name, Who gives it, Level it should be performed


I believe this metainformation published on the Genesis website and combined with Ragni's monumental work on the quest orbs online would bring lots of players back and smooth the way for many newbies. (points at self :))

Based on this list, an unemployed wizard like me could put together a quest log in the style of WOW that would mark the available quests for one's current level.

We could dream even more and filter the report on the quests the player has yet to do and the quests the player has done etc...

What do you think ?

/Bendis

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Cherek
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Cherek » 15 Aug 2012 14:37

Lose XP for doing quests too early? Huh?

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Bendis
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Bendis » 15 Aug 2012 14:53

Yeah, this is what I have been told 10 years ago, that one wouldn't get the whole xp for a quest if one's total quest xp wasn't big enough. One player even looked at me with compassion and told me I did the Zodiac way to early.

I am happy to hear it is only a myth :) On the other hand my main issue for the proposal wasn't losing the xps. The main issue is making it easy for newbies/social players to keep the focus and know where to go next.

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Cherek
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Cherek » 15 Aug 2012 14:57

It's not a good idea I think.

I dont know if it's a myth or not, its just one I've never heard before. it sounds pretty weird though...:)

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Bendis
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Bendis » 15 Aug 2012 15:32

Cherek wrote:It's not a good idea I think.
What are you referring to? The quest list/log idea or the quest xp limitation ? :)

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gorboth
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by gorboth » 15 Aug 2012 17:33

It is not a myth, but it would be pretty impossible to lose half of your zodiac quest exp, since it is doled out in chunks (as are a number of large-scale quests.) The formula is this, when questing:

A quest exp reward cannot exceed the total exp that a player already has.

Some of you might hear this and go WHOAOAA!! I'm sure I lost a ton of exp because of this!!

No, that is extremely unlikely, even if your character was made a long time ago before the tutorial was created. The reason is this: a brand new character begins the game with exp far exceeding what most tour-sized quests offer. Likewise, most quests of any real size require at least a few skills to be trained, and many require certain stats to be achieved. What is more, most characters have done at least a bit of killing between creation and their first really large quest, which almost guarantees that they would have sufficient quest exp to have their reward not exceed their total.

The rationale for this rule is something of a carryover from the older philosophies of game design that were prevalent when the bulk of Genesis content was created. This was a time when quest runthroughs were not only discouraged, they were illegal. This mechanic was inserted to prevent a scenareo where a new character is created, heaped with money from a friend to train skills, and then run through some big quest right off the bat to give them quick size.

I question the value of this mechanic in today's game, but due to the nature of Genesis organic design, to change it would require that the code for each quest be individually sifted and altered one by one. This may someday happen, especially if we eventually get around to fixing up all quests to make them more friendly in terms of syntax and sequential logic (a long-standing goal, but quite an ambitious one.)

So ... all that being said, with a new character these days, the solution to all of this is extremely simple: do a few small quests first, and you'll be fine. Completion of the tutorial alone would guarantee safety from the tyranny of this mechanic. So ... Bendis was correct, Cherek! ;-)

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Laurel

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Laurel » 15 Aug 2012 17:38

Example of a quest with great reward and really not requiring stats/skills would be bury bones, or? I'm quite certain some of my long-ago-created lowbies have done it at old wanderer or even lower.

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Bendis
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Bendis » 15 Aug 2012 18:38

I made up the "half" to make a point, as I don't have any way to figure out the exact proportion. Based on what you said, probably I didn't lose any :).

Again, the real reason for the quest list is to give focus, as the WoW quest log does. After we are all encouraged for succeeding in a quest, the adrenaline goes down real fast if we have to run around confused on what we need to do next. :D Who could help and publish their favorite quest order?

Most of the info is already available I think in the quest orbs online, I would appreciate your help in extracting and summarizing it:

Domain, Quest, Who, Level

I plan to update this with your recommendations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

A CSV export could be subsequently used to generate automated reports in game based on the player's level and the quests already done.

*thinks about memory consumption, performance and server load* :D

/Bendis

PS The quest list idea came to me after observing a couple of youngsters give up because of "where do I go now" questions... The same youngsters are doing well with LOTR and WoW.

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Cherek
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Cherek » 15 Aug 2012 23:35

bendis wrote:
Cherek wrote:It's not a good idea I think.
What are you referring to? The quest list/log idea or the quest xp limitation ? :)
Duh, I meant to say your idea with quest list IS good... sorry for the confusion.

Gorboth: Apparently so. I had no idea.

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Ragni
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Re: Character size inflation

Post by Ragni » 16 Aug 2012 00:31

bendis wrote:
Again, the real reason for the quest list is to give focus, as the WoW quest log does. After we are all encouraged for succeeding in a quest, the adrenaline goes down real fast if we have to run around confused on what we need to do next. :D Who could help and publish their favorite quest order?

Most of the info is already available I think in the quest orbs online, I would appreciate your help in extracting and summarizing it:

Domain, Quest, Who, Level

/Bendis

PS The quest list idea came to me after observing a couple of youngsters give up because of "where do I go now" questions... The same youngsters are doing well with LOTR and WoW.
What about putting a Newbie's guide to questing on the Quests orbs site ? It would be easy to write a basic guide to getting round Sparkle and the quests in that domain then give a few pointers to some of the other newbie quest givers like the Mayor in Cadu. Doesn't the Chief in Green Oaks give such advice when you complete his last quest, a guide could just expand on that advice a bit. I don't think a full list of all the quests with a recomended level is required just maybe a recomended subset for newbies. Although a full list might have stopped me being killed so many times by Quest NPCs such as the Yeti, mummy in tower etc which I tried to tackle at for to small a size.

Finally could we have a link on the Useful Links & Resources page of the main Genesis website to the online Quest orbs ?

Ragni

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