What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewards?

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Rhaegar
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Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Rhaegar » 25 Nov 2012 18:01

True, you won't get rid of people who'd like to cheat and abuse the system as much as possible, but if it would mean improving the game experience for all the others at the same time then why the hell not?
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

Arcon

Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Arcon » 25 Nov 2012 20:03

How is it supposed to improve the gaming experience to make instances? Why not just make new dundgeos that you have to have a team of 5 to open (having to push 5 different buttons at 5 different places at the same time to open). Or some weird guardian that don't let myths in.

I honestly think that creating instances go against everything that genesis/mud is all about. We could just as well just play a normal game in multiplayer mode. The whole idea of a instance is to keep you and your team away from every one else, how is that good?

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Rhaegar
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Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Rhaegar » 25 Nov 2012 22:48

arcon wrote:How is it supposed to improve the gaming experience to make instances? Why not just make new dundgeos that you have to have a team of 5 to open (having to push 5 different buttons at 5 different places at the same time to open). Or some weird guardian that don't let myths in.

I honestly think that creating instances go against everything that genesis/mud is all about. We could just as well just play a normal game in multiplayer mode. The whole idea of a instance is to keep you and your team away from every one else, how is that good?
It allows several teams to go through the same content at the same time. It might not be as appaling to you as to me perhaps, since I've spent years playing Guild Wars, where everything beyond town-hubs is instanced instead of open-world, but I always found it to be a good idea. It might not be of such an issue in Genesis, but playing some MMO and having to deal with people constantly camping certain mobs/areas to clear them over and over again can be frustrating. Instancing everything ensures such things don't happen.

Of course, this could (and should) be further improved by mobs not respawning within the instance, so if you clear it you have to re-enter it and start from scratch and can't just stay there forever.
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Strider
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One of these things is not like the others

Post by Strider » 25 Nov 2012 23:27

Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see how introducing Scaling NPCs or High-Level Grind-Area Instancing would have similar effects to changing combat rewards to favor Encounter-Level Biased Growth.

I suppose you could introduce a weird type of growth-only scaling with no experience adjustments to move players away from brain-dead let-the-client-play play-styles, but this seems like it would be an odd kludge, requiring more effort. Otherwise, I think scaling actually favors 'bot-style-grinding, especially if you can exploit stat-based combat-experience rewards, fighting otherwise junior-circuit NPCs with crap equipment and no specials.

On the other hand, instancing might move some towards more-challenging play by increasing opportunities, and has the benefit of being an existing code-set, but it is otherwise, simply more of the status quo.
The preceding collection of words was presented by Strider's Player.
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Re: One of these things is not like the others

Post by Greneth » 26 Nov 2012 00:53

strider wrote:Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see how introducing Scaling NPCs or High-Level Grind-Area Instancing would have similar effects to changing combat rewards to favor Encounter-Level Biased Growth.

I suppose you could introduce a weird type of growth-only scaling with no experience adjustments to move players away from brain-dead let-the-client-play play-styles, but this seems like it would be an odd kludge, requiring more effort. Otherwise, I think scaling actually favors 'bot-style-grinding, especially if you can exploit stat-based combat-experience rewards, fighting otherwise junior-circuit NPCs with crap equipment and no specials.

On the other hand, instancing might move some towards more-challenging play by increasing opportunities, and has the benefit of being an existing code-set, but it is otherwise, simply more of the status quo.
I would much rather have scaling mobs then have quite a few very large mobs that can easily be brought down by Ga/Vets and they take no damage like now. So the exploiting and bot favor mobs are already in game, if you introduce scaling you can at least prevent extreme power leveling.

Terel Goblins went through a few bugs but came out just fine, changing all other areas to that would also provide lower levels with proper mobs to level off of. Because once you get kicked out of the Sparkle Newbie dungeon at... Wanderer I think... If you don't have a proper guild it becomes extremely hard to level on your own. Your left with maybe 2-3 spots that are not very big.

I would like to see mobs like the Yeti, Dragons, Calof, Alexander (His eq sucks I know but his name just popped into my head) or any other mob that provides good or really good eq to be buffed immensely. Forcing people to NEED to have a team to take them out. We have plenty of content and mobs that creating an instance to me is just not using the available unused space we already have in game. This would also prevent people from solo/duo areas such as qualinost, mithas etc, forcing once again the need for a team.

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Rhaegar
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Re: One of these things is not like the others

Post by Rhaegar » 26 Nov 2012 01:07

Greneth wrote:
strider wrote:Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see how introducing Scaling NPCs or High-Level Grind-Area Instancing would have similar effects to changing combat rewards to favor Encounter-Level Biased Growth.

I suppose you could introduce a weird type of growth-only scaling with no experience adjustments to move players away from brain-dead let-the-client-play play-styles, but this seems like it would be an odd kludge, requiring more effort. Otherwise, I think scaling actually favors 'bot-style-grinding, especially if you can exploit stat-based combat-experience rewards, fighting otherwise junior-circuit NPCs with crap equipment and no specials.

On the other hand, instancing might move some towards more-challenging play by increasing opportunities, and has the benefit of being an existing code-set, but it is otherwise, simply more of the status quo.
I would much rather have scaling mobs then have quite a few very large mobs that can easily be brought down by Ga/Vets and they take no damage like now. So the exploiting and bot favor mobs are already in game, if you introduce scaling you can at least prevent extreme power leveling.

Terel Goblins went through a few bugs but came out just fine, changing all other areas to that would also provide lower levels with proper mobs to level off of. Because once you get kicked out of the Sparkle Newbie dungeon at... Wanderer I think... If you don't have a proper guild it becomes extremely hard to level on your own. Your left with maybe 2-3 spots that are not very big.

I would like to see mobs like the Yeti, Dragons, Calof, Alexander (His eq sucks I know but his name just popped into my head) or any other mob that provides good or really good eq to be buffed immensely. Forcing people to NEED to have a team to take them out. We have plenty of content and mobs that creating an instance to me is just not using the available unused space we already have in game. This would also prevent people from solo/duo areas such as qualinost, mithas etc, forcing once again the need for a team.
I'm all for making dragons and super-mobs with great eq getting a huge buff. But the reward should also reflect it (perhaps even to the point where a team of myths taking down a dragon would get two levels of progress each at least), making it a viable alternative to grinding regular spots for hours (and freeing up those spots for smaller people).
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

Greneth

Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Greneth » 26 Nov 2012 01:24

I think the rewards are just fine, its everyone has become too complacent with prime eq that they expect it. I know some who wont even log in but to check for certain gear and if its not there they wont play.

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Rhaegar
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Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Rhaegar » 26 Nov 2012 01:34

Heh, I guess the times of splendid swords being considered a "rack worthy" equipment for BDA are gone (and I think it's a pity).
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Strider
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Why change the calculation for NPC combat exp rewards?

Post by Strider » 26 Nov 2012 01:46

Greneth wrote:I would much rather have scaling mobs then have quite a few very large mobs that can easily be brought down by Ga/Vets and they take no damage like now. So the exploiting and bot favor mobs are already in game, if you introduce scaling you can at least prevent extreme power leveling.
Rhaegar wrote:I'm all for making dragons and super-mobs with great eq getting a huge buff. But the reward should also reflect it (perhaps even to the point where a team of myths taking down a dragon would get two levels of progress each at least), making it a viable alternative to grinding regular spots for hours (and freeing up those spots for smaller people).
Which is one of the main points in this thread: It is both possible and desirable to adjust the combat experience calculations such you can only advance your character in dangerous fights which pay off big, and that means some amount of time on death recovery, because the reward for simple butchery (script-run style killing) is reduced.
The preceding collection of words was presented by Strider's Player.
Any meaning you ascribe to them is most likely due to lucky happenstance or your misinterpretation.

If you'd prefer Strider's opinion, you'll probably have to ask for it in game.

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Tive
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Re: What is a fair formula to calculate NPC combat exp rewar

Post by Tive » 26 Nov 2012 10:55

Rhaegar wrote:Heh, I guess the times of splendid swords being considered a "rack worthy" equipment for BDA are gone (and I think it's a pity).
They never were, not even when BDA opened. Stop pretending you are some ancient all-knowing person, dude.
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