Death lost the bet!

[Manglor]

I never killed Gamalus
They added me (and Laurel) on the enemy list earlier before someone from my team fought him, about day they broke alliance.

However that shows how gossips create reality in Genesis

You most certainly did attack Gelan. Perhaps you did not succeed in killing Gamalus, but you were seen fighting the guards. I believe this would most likely be reason for being hunted. Despite whatever else you and Laurel may have done (I will not speculate on things).

Which part of the "after he was added to the enemy list" did you not understand now? I know that Irk's engrish is tough at times, but this time it was quite understandable imho.

Shall we discuss Irk's and Laurel's enemy status in Calia again on this board? I'm more than happy to.

Pretty sure it went "break treaty->Irk enemy->Irk does something actually earn it". The treaty breaking was about Irk, not about Irk in Calia. Maybe the reason was added after the fact, as a reason to justify.

[Windemere]

The question was "Why are calians fighting neidar anyways"

The answer, no matter what order you want to put events in (does not matter) is that he attacked Gelan. I don't care if he was an enemy before that and the reasons for it. I really don't. It still answers the question that was posed by Kiara. In fact if he was an enemy before hand, whoever knows why, then it gives them even more reason. I'm not here to debate why he is an enemy and if he should be or not. Why I was doing was letting Kiara know why the Calians were attacking him in the first place.

[Laurel]

The question was "Why are calians fighting neidar anyways"

The answer, no matter what order you want to put events in (does not matter) is that he attacked Gelan. I don't care if he was an enemy before that and the reasons for it. I really don't. It still answers the question that was posed by Kiara. In fact if he was an enemy before hand, whoever knows why, then it gives them even more reason. I'm not here to debate why he is an enemy and if he should be or not. Why I was doing was letting Kiara know why the Calians were attacking him in the first place.

You're not making sense though. If you want to answer "why Calians are attacking Irk IN THE FIRST PLACE?" then the question for their "reasons" for making him an enemy is quite obvious. They made him their enemy to have an excuse to attack him IN THE FIRST PLACE

If killing Gamalus or attacking Gelan is a sin to be punished by being hunted by Calians, then Calians do a goddamn lousy job in hunting those who did that recently (within the last 3 months). They just wanted to pick on Irk for personal (out of game) reasons they had.
You are defending those reasons because you were involved with some of your chars in all this idiocy of a pseudo-RP political bullsh*t aka amassing extremely poor pseudo-RP excuses to pick on a single char - Irk.

[Windemere]

The question was "Why are calians fighting neidar anyways"

The answer, no matter what order you want to put events in (does not matter) is that he attacked Gelan. I don't care if he was an enemy before that and the reasons for it. I really don't. It still answers the question that was posed by Kiara. In fact if he was an enemy before hand, whoever knows why, then it gives them even more reason. I'm not here to debate why he is an enemy and if he should be or not. Why I was doing was letting Kiara know why the Calians were attacking him in the first place.

You're not making sense though. If you want to answer "why Calians are attacking Irk IN THE FIRST PLACE?" then the question for their "reasons" for making him an enemy is quite obvious. They made him their enemy to have an excuse to attack him IN THE FIRST PLACE

If killing Gamalus or attacking Gelan is a sin to be punished by being hunted by Calians, then Calians do a goddamn lousy job in hunting those who did that recently (within the last 3 months). They just wanted to pick on Irk for personal (out of game) reasons they had.
You are defending those reasons because you were involved with some of your chars in all this idiocy of a pseudo-RP political bullsh*t aka amassing extremely poor pseudo-RP excuses to pick on a single char - Irk.

You mean involved because Irk killed a Knight for no reason? Oh, I'm sorry that it was Pseudo-RP for a Conclave member to consider the killing of a Knight for no good reason to be an act worthy of being hunted. My mistake. I guess guild councils should just allow people kill their guild members for no reason. Sorry Laurel, I guess I am in the wrong here.

As well, Kiara's question was "Why are Calians fighting Neidars btw? And dying doing it??" which I answered by the most logical reason "Irk attacked Gelan".

I am afraid I don't take out of game information and use it to define what I do in game. I am answering the question based on what I know to be factual. You can attack my character as much as you want, but I have shown a consistent RP ethic which should tell most people who know me better than you that I would never base any in game action on anything out of game. My complete roleplayed reasons for being upset with Irk remain in game and I am NOT defending Calians in anyway. I am simply explaining to Kiara, not you, that in MY OPINION, from what I ACTUALLY KNOW, Irk is being attacked by Calians because he attacked Gelan. I do not like to speculate on things I do not know.

It seems to me that YOU are the one with Pseudo-RP and Out of game reasons to be attacking me on this forum at present.

[Irk]

I do not like to speculate on things I do not know.

So why do you still speculate about this thing? I show you, your information are wrong, but you still spread them around.

Case of Ydred was more complicated and the only thing, which kept me from killing him, was alliance. When Knights broke it, I felt free to kill him (for attacking my team at dragon and I dont care his was MM then and few days later Knight). Similar story is with Castaneda, who hide his ass in the Calian, after killing me.
However Calians at least do some steps after me, Knights did nothing, but I am still waiting

[Laurel]

You guys keep accepting RL-friends and buddies into "your" guilds, without them clearing their statuses with other (by that time still existing) alliance members and expect Irk to simply forget he was attacked/killed? And when he takes the issue into his own hands (obviously said "knight" allowed Irk to kill him to give you some reasons to declare HoJ) you have your "excuse".

My cat is better at weaving plots.

What pseudo-RP do I need to "attack" (as in pointing out lack of logic) anyone on a forum now?!

[Windemere]

I'm taking this to Private Messages because I am getting annoyed and I don't want to Hijack this thread anymore. Also I am speaking way to much about another character which I do not want to do.

If you are curious about my response to Laurel and Irk, then let me know through PM.

[Kiara]

The question was "Why are calians fighting neidar anyways"

The answer, no matter what order you want to put events in (does not matter) is that he attacked Gelan. I don't care if he was an enemy before that and the reasons for it. I really don't. It still answers the question that was posed by Kiara. In fact if he was an enemy before hand, whoever knows why, then it gives them even more reason. I'm not here to debate why he is an enemy and if he should be or not. Why I was doing was letting Kiara know why the Calians were attacking him in the first place.

I think it has been answered... in the form of a "who did what?"-argument. I didnt really plan to spark an argument. Honestly I thought they were just sparring, not that there was an actual conflict between Neidars and Calians. That just feels so.. strange...

But hey, I am all for conflict in the game. Go for it.

[Kiara]

That makes no sense what so ever.
Of course NPCs can be coded to actually "play their part", rather than just being a short text description of an XP-container. It's part of trying to create an illusion of a living, breathing world.
Also as a former MM, you should know that MM have NPCs that can "see for you", so that part of of the "argument" is invalid as well.

Ah yes, I did forget about those MM guards. And no, I dont think they should exist either.

I dont think haradrim protected guards should alert the King as to who attacks. I dont think any guards should do this. Period.

It makes perfect sense to me .... the guards do not know your name ... you have not introduced ... you are just a human/goblin/dwarf/hobbit ... etc whatever to them. But magically they do know your name. As for your description they shouldnt know that if you wear certain items. Period.

So no, I dont think you are corrrect as the guards take many advantages to 'see' who you really are without knowing you. At most they should see a description and leave it up to the players to figure out who you are ... and if you wear certain attire in game .... they should only see race if that.

This illusion you speak of lacks much logic that I think should be there. I will grant you they saw someone, but as to who that someone is .... leave that up to the players to figure from as little information as possible, if certain aspects are met of course.

And if you disagree with that of course then why not add an assassin npc in game that I can pay X gold to for assassinations. And the more I pay the ore likely the person I ask, even if I dont know them, I can assassintate. 30k platinum and I can send a team of 10 assassins ... living and breathing .... to attack some person and with a high degree of success. Make sure they hunt to the victim also while they run about so as to not break the illusion of reality etc.

I feel the complete opposite. I think we should have _more_ NPCs reporting stuff like that. Especially attacks on guild homes. Why? Simple, it promotes conflict and PVP.

For instance I think the Krynn War System would have been much more fun if the NPCs would have reported when an area is attacked. So someone of the opposite faction could run to defend it. And attacking Vingaard Keep is probably more exciting if an actual player is there to defend it. And so on.

As long as it's thematic I dont see any problem with that. DA NPCs can just send a pigeon/messenger telling other awake members of the attack. RP-wise its more strange that they dont to be honest. Sending for reinforcements when an attacks happens seems logical to me.

I also think it would be cool if anyone could hire an NPC to patrol an area for you and report trouble. That way everyone would have a way to find and ambush someone they want to fight.

If we want more PVP (like many people say they do), then one thing that would help is _finding_ someone to fight. And puting people in situations where fighting is needed. Like defending a guild home or area.

[Arcon]

That makes no sense what so ever.
Of course NPCs can be coded to actually "play their part", rather than just being a short text description of an XP-container. It's part of trying to create an illusion of a living, breathing world.
Also as a former MM, you should know that MM have NPCs that can "see for you", so that part of of the "argument" is invalid as well.

Ah yes, I did forget about those MM guards. And no, I dont think they should exist either.

I dont think haradrim protected guards should alert the King as to who attacks. I dont think any guards should do this. Period.

It makes perfect sense to me .... the guards do not know your name ... you have not introduced ... you are just a human/goblin/dwarf/hobbit ... etc whatever to them. But magically they do know your name. As for your description they shouldnt know that if you wear certain items. Period.

So no, I dont think you are corrrect as the guards take many advantages to 'see' who you really are without knowing you. At most they should see a description and leave it up to the players to figure out who you are ... and if you wear certain attire in game .... they should only see race if that.

This illusion you speak of lacks much logic that I think should be there. I will grant you they saw someone, but as to who that someone is .... leave that up to the players to figure from as little information as possible, if certain aspects are met of course.

And if you disagree with that of course then why not add an assassin npc in game that I can pay X gold to for assassinations. And the more I pay the ore likely the person I ask, even if I dont know them, I can assassintate. 30k platinum and I can send a team of 10 assassins ... living and breathing .... to attack some person and with a high degree of success. Make sure they hunt to the victim also while they run about so as to not break the illusion of reality etc.

I feel the complete opposite. I think we should have _more_ NPCs reporting stuff like that. Especially attacks on guild homes. Why? Simple, it promotes conflict and PVP.

For instance I think the Krynn War System would have been much more fun if the NPCs would have reported when an area is attacked. So someone of the opposite faction could run to defend it. And attacking Vingaard Keep is probably more exciting if an actual player is there to defend it. And so on.

As long as it's thematic I dont see any problem with that. DA NPCs can just send a pigeon/messenger telling other awake members of the attack. RP-wise its more strange that they dont to be honest. Sending for reinforcements when an attacks happens seems logical to me.

I also think it would be cool if anyone could hire an NPC to patrol an area for you and report trouble. That way everyone would have a way to find and ambush someone they want to fight.

If we want more PVP (like many people say they do), then one thing that would help is _finding_ someone to fight. And puting people in situations where fighting is needed. Like defending a guild home or area.

There is one small problem with this idea. Something like that would not let younger members to "sneak" conquer areas.