Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Only validated game players have access in this forum. Use this forum to discuss guilds. Note that as a general rule, guild abilities should not be revealed.
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
petros
Site Admin
Posts: 473
Joined: 03 Mar 2010 07:50

Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by petros » 08 Feb 2015 11:08

I moved this post to its own topic as it is certainly deserving of its own discussion amongst the players and wizards.

The question (seemingly unrelated) that i would pose for this discussion would be - are druids (in the traditional RPG genre) neutral? they seek to preserve nature. opponents of nature could be civilization if they want to raze a forest to build colonies, or it could be spreading a pestilence that could destroy the wild life there. Does their calling to protect automatically make them good? or are they neutral?

User avatar
Habiki
Adept
Posts: 128
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 15:29
Location: China

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Habiki » 08 Feb 2015 11:34

The relationship between the Calian Warriors and the future Elemental Clerics is speculative, and our agreement with the SCoP calls to re-evaluate at that time. The SCoP and the Warriors' interests are very much in line, but the SCoP will cease to exist, hypothetically. Currently, The SCoP and the Worshippers are two different guilds and there's no alliance with the Worshippers, though we've always been friendly.

If the Elemental Clerics are the occupational branch of the Worshippers guild, then I would assume Calians would find specific allies within the guild and perhaps enemies within it too. Enemies of Calia have been layman Worshippers. I'd think no one really knows how the leadership of the Elemental Clerics will be set up and what their rules will be.

Regarding calls for the Calian Warriors to be neutral, if enough people joined the Warriors and wanted it to be neutral, then they could take over the council and make it that way, but so far the guild has always wanted to be good. Maybe a powerful, popular and neutral Elemental occupational guild would lead to that. Who knows? But even with our current rules, there would be little stopping us from teaming with evil Elemental Clerics because it would be a neutral guild.
Last edited by Habiki on 08 Feb 2015 11:43, edited 1 time in total.

Laurel

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Laurel » 08 Feb 2015 11:37

the relation between Castaneda and Hektor is hardly speculative and will impact all future guild relationships until both puppetmasters stop playing

User avatar
Alisa
Rising Hero
Posts: 355
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Alisa » 08 Feb 2015 11:37

I don't get it.

I have seen this discussion multiple times now around Calia and its alignment. Alot of points are put forward, and base interpretation is always the deciding factor.

Calian warriors are in my eyes a good aligned guild, because they are a bunch of renegade fighters that decided to protect the area.... A good deed i would say.

Elemental worshippers, and the future Elemental Clerics are neutral because they worship Elements that does not dictate how to behave. They protect Calia(Not calian warriors) because they live there.

Spirit Circle of Psuchae are good aligned, because they help people and fight undead. It could have been a neutral guild also, save the normal "undead are evil" theme.


Emerald has the Light vs Darkness theme, that are still coded as good and evil in the genesis code. Army of Darkness (Ogres) are servants of Darkness, therefore not genesis Evil and a neutral guild. Why are noone complaining about them not being evil? Does it not matter.

Think of all the RP options you can make, and how you can interact..... Most importantly though : Remember this is a game, and ment as an entertainment.

Laurel

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Laurel » 08 Feb 2015 12:30

Alisa wrote:(...) a bunch of renegade fighters that decided to protect the area.... A good deed i would say.
a certain pseudo-country in the middle-east comes to mind, deemed currently an international terroristic threat to the rest of the world
other similar "countries" come to mind as well

on the other side - the code doesn't let them be below neutral (the code itself is dumb if it checks only at login/out) - that leaves little room for any discussion

User avatar
Alisa
Rising Hero
Posts: 355
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Alisa » 08 Feb 2015 15:30

Laurel wrote:
Alisa wrote:(...) a bunch of renegade fighters that decided to protect the area.... A good deed i would say.
a certain pseudo-country in the middle-east comes to mind, deemed currently an international terroristic threat to the rest of the world
other similar "countries" come to mind as well

on the other side - the code doesn't let them be below neutral (the code itself is dumb if it checks only at login/out) - that leaves little room for any discussion

If the calians went to sybarus and told the SU what they should believe i would agree.


Kitriana:
Claiming a guild wont be neutral because of the players, is critizism of the players, not the theme of the guild. Any human can fuck up a theme.
Besides, if the evil guy join he will try to pull the guild in evil direction, as the good guy joining will try to pull in good direction.
I will withdraw from the discussion as it is personal instead of theme based.

Windemere
Expert
Posts: 286
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 05:37
Location: Winterpeg

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Windemere » 08 Feb 2015 17:22

Elemental Clerics will worship 5 unique Elementals. Each has their own personality and will draw their own players. Look at current EW. Would you not consider them neutral? We've had DA in them, super evil DO are in them, etc...

Elemental Clerics, and current ScOP, don't care about political wars. It's petty to them. We have a spiritual mandate and focus on worship and that mandate. Servants of God, not of the political whims of some wannabe government. So, while we do align ourselves with Calia, we also made it very clear we won't be drawn into a war with them unless it spills over into a threat on Calia.

It will be up to the players who are in the new EC to determine whether this continues. At present, while we assist Calia, we are at arms length from them, two arms lengths even. They do not influence our guild policy and we do not really influence there's.

To say that EC will not be neutral for the sole fact that they exist in the same domain as the Calians and have decided to aid in their home's protection from outside invaders is a farce.

User avatar
Habiki
Adept
Posts: 128
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 15:29
Location: China

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Habiki » 08 Feb 2015 17:32

They are hard coded that they can't log out/log in with an evil alignment.
Might want to check your facts on that one.
And the guild leadership has (almost - I put that in as a disclaimer because I'm sure someone will come up with some short period of time where the leadership didn't hold that way) always pushed a "good aligned" agenda on the membership and looked to punish members who opted for a more neutral or evil aligned RP. For a good part of the beginning of Genesis... Calians were part of the Elnoven alliance. There were very strong alliances due to the friendships with the Mystics back in the day. Kithkanan, who was a guild leader for many years, was a protector for the Mystics. You look at some of the other guild leadership back in the day.. Talmeir.. Raph.. etc.. This was a good aligned guild. I strongly remember everyone always saying Calians are a good aligned guild choice. No one ever listed it as a "neutral" choice. That was the gladiators .. and then the mercenaries when they opened. So to come now and claim that Calians are a neutral option is just absurd on its face.
The guild can be shifted how the members want it to be. A lot changes and evolves in 10 years. The council changes every 6 months. Argument similar to "Wiz it yourself" applies.

User avatar
Habiki
Adept
Posts: 128
Joined: 29 Jul 2010 15:29
Location: China

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Habiki » 08 Feb 2015 17:48

Uh... you're probably right historically. But no one cares about that anymore. A lot of Americans were British Royalists in 1780, but it's not like most Americans today are even aware of that.

Regarding alignment, maybe you should ask your friends to test that for you.

Some members come back to the guild after 10 years and are surprised or pissed off at the changes we've made but, speaking as the Recruitment Coordinator, I'd rather see the Calian Warriors be a guild that caters to all these newbies who are joining rather than 15 year old members who may stop by once a year to check the board.
Last edited by Habiki on 08 Feb 2015 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Snowrose
Rising Hero
Posts: 307
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 22:04
Location: Reseda
Contact:

Re: Elemental Cleric Neutrality a Farce

Post by Snowrose » 08 Feb 2015 19:01

the safest bet is just remove alignment restrictions from calia guilds and see what happens.
chances are both will remain good reguardless due to leadership. alignment should only be hard coded in guilds that have a litature based lore like krynn/middleearth that specifies or if the guild theme is dependant on good or evil.

otherwize the leadership/members can enforce whatever alignment they see fit.
calians is really a guild that evolved in play and EC should be as well. though since the guilds are close similar alignments would be nice.

i do like the idea of the newbie schools being in a newbie zone heck put them in sparkle/green oaks somewhere
though gont would also be nice, very near gardeners/travelers. but the docks can be confusing, cadu has no in game maps last i heard so that may not be the best spot.
Image

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/