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Uncle Trapspringer's Revenge!! 
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 151
Perhaps not power, but usefullness/utility? If all you're after is fun, RP and generally being a nuissance why pay tax for it? Make SS a layman guild? :) If not, I would love to see kenders occupy both OCC and layman slot. Make it so that there can be only 9 kenders in the guild. Make them uber powerful and uber annoying, so that MM are cute, fluffy bunnies compared to them.

But for now let's compare SoHM and SS... We've all seen and some even experienced first-handed what Sgex could do.

And yes, kenders can borrow brawled weapons.

I was hoping that kenders would be changed, a breath of fresh air so to speak.


09 Jun 2017 09:45
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 425
Rincon wrote:
Perhaps not power, but usefullness/utility? If all you're after is fun, RP and generally being a nuissance why pay tax for it? Make SS a layman guild? :) If not, I would love to see kenders occupy both OCC and layman slot. Make it so that there can be only 9 kenders in the guild. Make them uber powerful and uber annoying, so that MM are cute, fluffy bunnies compared to them.

But for now let's compare SoHM and SS... We've all seen and some even experienced first-handed what Sgex could do.

And yes, kenders can borrow brawled weapons.

I was hoping that kenders would be changed, a breath of fresh air so to speak.


I don't really understand your disappointment at the kender recode. Why would a thief occupational guild be able to tank better than a warrior guild type that is a defensive specialist? Or do more damage than a warrior guild type that is an offensive specialist? *boggle*

Thematically the original kender guild was excellent. The recode brought them into the current combat system, and increased both their offensive and defensive abilities to make them a more playable and useful class - both solo and in a team. But they are still a thief class, with all the limitations that goes with them. If you expected them to become dps or tanking machines then your expectations are in fairyland.


09 Jun 2017 10:52
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 151
In most RPGs a thief is essential in a team. You need him to unlock doors, chests, find hidden exits, detect and disarm traps, backstab for 3x damage, etc. But in Genesis environment he's not.

If a grinding area was behind a hidden, trapped and locked door, which could be opened only by a kender, then I would love to have a kender in my team. (The door would lock itself behind you and you'd still need a kender to get out of the area. Gem and teleportation wouldn't work). But otherwise, what's the point of having a thief in your team?

I'm not saying I don't want to team with kenders because they have poor dps, but was hoping they'd be more battle worthy. Afterall, in Dragonlance the team wouldn't have made it, if it wasnt for Tass.

Perhaps kenders could have a high chance for critical hit in all their carelessness? 'Oooops! Did I do that? Oh my gosh, sorry! Was that me again?! I didn't mean to! Why isn't he moving anymore?'


09 Jun 2017 11:02
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Titan
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
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Location: Denmark
Rincon wrote:
Perhaps kenders could have a high chance for critical hit in all their carelessness? 'Oooops! Did I do that? Oh my gosh, sorry! Was that me again?! I didn't mean to! Why isn't he moving anymore?'


Brought a smile to my face. Would be hilarious :)

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09 Jun 2017 11:57
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
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Rincon wrote:
In most RPGs a thief is essential in a team. You need him to unlock doors, chests, find hidden exits, detect and disarm traps, backstab for 3x damage, etc. But in Genesis environment he's not.

If a grinding area was behind a hidden, trapped and locked door, which could be opened only by a kender, then I would love to have a kender in my team. (The door would lock itself behind you and you'd still need a kender to get out of the area. Gem and teleportation wouldn't work). But otherwise, what's the point of having a thief in your team?

I'm not saying I don't want to team with kenders because they have poor dps, but was hoping they'd be more battle worthy. Afterall, in Dragonlance the team wouldn't have made it, if it wasnt for Tass.

Perhaps kenders could have a high chance for critical hit in all their carelessness? 'Oooops! Did I do that? Oh my gosh, sorry! Was that me again?! I didn't mean to! Why isn't he moving anymore?'


I know... but I don't think that is the kender guild's fault that the rest of Genesis isn't really coded to cater for thieves (er or handlers).

It is a tough question though... how much content / area should be locked away from the majority of players who are non-thieves? Is there enough thief supporting guilds in the game to introduce such areas?

But the balancing of non-melee classes like rogues and clerics has always been tricky outside of pen-and-paper RPGs. Maybe that is something us wizards should focus more on when introducing areas?


09 Jun 2017 13:08
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 151
Balancing areas to suit thief play-style would require a lot of work and is a long term project. A simpler solution would be to tweak thieves to make them more combat oriented and fit into Genesis environment. Isn't this what you did with SoHM? They're all battle mages and have spells which are useful for combat (dmg spells, protection spells, etc.). In Genesis you dont have scholar mages, who know many languages and are wise enough to forsee the future and advise kings or mage illusionists or demonologists or other mage schools.

Why not make thief class the same way and make their abilities useful in combat?


09 Jun 2017 13:44
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Rincon wrote:
Perhaps kenders could have a high chance for critical hit in all their carelessness? 'Oooops! Did I do that? Oh my gosh, sorry! Was that me again?! I didn't mean to! Why isn't he moving anymore?'


That's a really fun idea. If it's discovered kenders, despite the recode, still needs a boost that might be a fun and thematic thing to consider!

I think we should give the new kenders a chance though, and see how they will be used in teams and otherwise. You never truly now how things will work out until it's been used in the live game for a while. And taunt is after all a team ability that has the potential of making them quite useful in a team, especially since they now make more damage than before thanks to various improvements.


09 Jun 2017 20:13
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Hero
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Joined: 18 Apr 2015 03:28
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Lorewise Kender can't steal right? So what is the point of having a thief guild that can't steal and has to give everything back? I say cut the OCC kenders stealing stuff half and then make them a rogue-like fighting guild with lots of acrobatics and sneaky moves. I know it's too late for that though, the recode is finished, and good job, Carnak I just wanted to make the observation.

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10 Jun 2017 01:17
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
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Ody wrote:
Lorewise Kender can't steal right? So what is the point of having a thief guild that can't steal and has to give everything back? I say cut the OCC kenders stealing stuff half and then make them a rogue-like fighting guild with lots of acrobatics and sneaky moves. I know it's too late for that though, the recode is finished, and good job, Carnak I just wanted to make the observation.


Kenders have never been able to steal! The are quite gifted borrowers and handlers however, which sadly other races have a difficult time distinguishing from stealing. And yes kenders do give stuff back they handle... if they remember, or if they recall who the owner is, or if they aren't distracted by something shiny...

As for the kender combat abilities, I get the impression there is a lot of commentary without having played the recode. Their combat ability is fine.


10 Jun 2017 01:54
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Titan
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
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Thieves should be attacked on sight.

It's harassment.

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10 Jun 2017 03:17
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