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Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ... 

Should stat-mods (race-based, or otherwise) stay or go?
Keep them - as they are is fine 28%  28%  [ 19 ]
Keep them - but change them! 51%  51%  [ 35 ]
Remove them - no mods plz! 21%  21%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 68

Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ... 
Author Message
Site Admin
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Posts: 2203
Location: Some old coffin
Curious how the playerbase as a whole feels about this issue. We hear from the vocal minority, but are people truly unhappy with how race-based (or other) stat modifiers work in Genesis, currently? If you vote, it would be good to hear your rationale.

Code:
  [1] human   (A balanced race - no measurable strengths or weaknesses)
  [2] elf     (Intelligent, wise, and quite nimble - but a bit weak and frail)
  [3] dwarf   (Very strong, tough and brave - but inflexible and slow-witted)
  [4] hobbit  (Amazingly nimble - but rather frail and very weak)
  [5] gnome   (Very intelligent, quite nimble - but weak, frail, and cowardly)
  [6] goblin  (Very strong and tough - but very stupid and cowardly)

We don't discuss numbers here, but the basics we live with now are above:

G.

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29 Sep 2017 22:14
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Great Adventurer
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Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13
Posts: 185
I vote no change. See previous post regarding suggested changes to human.


29 Sep 2017 23:35
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55
Posts: 150
I vote no modifiers or at the very least change them. The changes to stats over the years IE: Dex not being damage anymore changed everything, these current modifiers are old.

The current setup is not only extremely limiting players choice for guilds when it comes to effectiveness. It also creates huge balance gaps between the races. Where is a hobbit suppose to go other then Kenders again? Elven warriors get laughed at unless they go a specific guild (Which the whole Elven Warrior/Ranger is probably one of the most popular classes in all fantasy genres). And Gnomes are the worst at everything other than a spellcaster but somehow aren't even the best spellcasters.


29 Sep 2017 23:54
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Hero

Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25
Posts: 446
I voted to modify them.

I would to see it (more or less) like this (simplified as much as possible):

Race STR DEX CON INT WIS DIS
Human 3/5 3/5 3/5 3/5 3/5 3/5
Elf 3/5 4/5 2/5 3/5 4/5 2/5
Dwarf 4/5 1/5 5/5 2/5 2/5 4/5
Hobbit 2/5 5/5 2/5 3/5 4/5 2/5
Goblin 3/5 4/5 3/5 3/5 2/5 3/5
Gnome 2/5 4/5 2/5 5/5 3/5 2/5

Human - That's standard
Elf - Never got the impression that elves were super-intelligent beings, ofc there are no elven peasants in fantasy literature, but human heroes - and we do play kind of heroes here are basically on same intellectual-level as them. Slight boost to wisdom due to their longevity. This change can also save us from seeing 80% of WOHS being elves....(that could be a sad experience)
Dwarf - Their con and bravery should be unmatched tbh.
Hobbit - I guess it's similar to what it is now.
Goblin - Hard one, cause in all fantasy (at least those I am aware of)-universes goblins are like the biggest crap around. I hate the fact that they are ultimate fighting machines in Genesis...
Gnome - I guess it's similar to what it is now.

Additional stuff:
I would like sub-races to have fixed stats (orc-Nazugls....)
Half-Elf - basically 1-1 human stats (so shouldn't be possible to get elven stats as half-elf).
Kender - I guess that's like the best mirrored sub-race (hobbit vs kender), but decrease in wisdom and even higher dex could work there (they seems like more nimble race than hobbits, but they're definately not "wise")
Minotaur - They should be like the strongest race (except for ogres ofc) out there so something like 5/5 2/5 4/5 1/5 2/5 4/5
Orc - Another hard ones (were "villain" races are usually crappy) Something like 4/5 2/5 4/5 2/5 2/5 4/5 (ofc Dis is to high for them, but I don't want to make them as strong as minos or as hardened as dwarves)
Hobgoblin - well similar to orc i guess (maybe boost dex and decrease str/con a bit)

That's my 2 cents.

Let the flame&hate begin!


30 Sep 2017 00:39
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1350
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Modify.
Remove the extremes.

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30 Sep 2017 01:48
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Apprentice
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Joined: 15 Aug 2017 06:01
Posts: 26
I voted change them, but not just in the "change how they're allotted" sense. I'd also like to see what they do changed to add more value to certain stats.

I'm posting these thoughts as someone who doesn't know a whole lot about the mechanics of the game...more impressions from what people tell you to focus on when asking for advice on race/guild setups. First up is DIS....I have never ever been told to focus on DIS with the small exception of maybe gladiator since it might have something to do with how hard charge hits. It feels like a throw away stat. So dwarven bonuses feel cheated and the goblin penalty feels meaningless.

DEX - as Greneth was saying, there aren't many places for a DEX heavy fighter to go. I'm not sure if this means the mechanics of DEX should be changed, or more options are needed for a nimble style of fighter guild. If DEX was changed then it could be left up to the player to determine whether they were, say, a slow heavy hitting knight, or a quicker lightly hitting knight.

This is more in general, but physical stats vs mental stats....as a fighter it seems you can totally toss any regard for mental stats without penalty. Yes, you take more magic damage (I think), but if you look at that list of grinding locations in the help forum, there's not a whole lot of magic damage to be had. So no sweat. Mental stat focused mages will need some physical stats to stay alive/carry stuff, so penalties actually do impact them. Again, I'm no mechanics expert, so perhaps it doesn't impact them much, especially when they're legend/myth level, but I'm thinking a mid-range perspective here (even then, maybe it's not a big deal?)

So, to bring this back to the original question, if stats modifications are to be changed (and the stats themselves not changed), then allocate them in such a way as to give each race a bonus in a meaningful stat and a penalty in a meaningful stat. I would say don't balance to an RP/fantasy image model, but balance to a game mechanics model.


30 Sep 2017 02:47
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1651
Change them, make a maximum allowed on all stats but replace it with equal minuses to stats.
Shouldnt be HUGE differences tbh like it is now.
Same amount of minus and plus aswell, so we done get some races with more points put in than others.


Last edited by Draugor on 30 Sep 2017 10:08, edited 1 time in total.



30 Sep 2017 08:21
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Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36
Posts: 592
Remove them - No mods.
No modifiers to min/max for the powergames, and freedom for everyone to build their character how they want with the race they want*, which will hopefully see a little more diversity in race of, say, the fighter characters around.

Also Genesis conforms to most standard Fantasy tropes, except when comes to Goblins. For some reason goblins are strong powerful fighters, when in most other classic fantasy games, goblins are weaker, cowardly but malicious creatures. If we didn't have the bonuses, at least goblins in Genesis wouldn't be so different from what one comes to expect from classic fantasy.

*Barring all the guilds racial requirements of course.

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30 Sep 2017 09:32
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55
Posts: 150
Id be more curious to hear from some of the 10 people who voted to keep the stats the way they are. On what their reasoning/justification for things being balanced and fine right now is.


30 Sep 2017 11:51
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1651
Makfly wrote:
Remove them - No mods.
No modifiers to min/max for the powergames, and freedom for everyone to build their character how they want with the race they want*, which will hopefully see a little more diversity in race of, say, the fighter characters around.

Also Genesis conforms to most standard Fantasy tropes, except when comes to Goblins. For some reason goblins are strong powerful fighters, when in most other classic fantasy games, goblins are weaker, cowardly but malicious creatures. If we didn't have the bonuses, at least goblins in Genesis wouldn't be so different from what one comes to expect from classic fantasy.

*Barring all the guilds racial requirements of course.


If we're to make em 100% even we might wanna make all racials have the same skills aswell, slight modifiers, otherwise we need to give some goblin racial a herbalism skill for instance


30 Sep 2017 12:51
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