What should a guild have for it's type?

[Kvator]

While the racial imbalance should be looked at, it has nothing to do with how to balance guilds.
If you balance a melee guild to goblins, you will effectively invalidate everything else as an option.
Same if you balance a caster guild to elf.

Well for me it's obvious that goblin should work better in melee guild and elf should work better in casting guild.

Unluckily it's not the case in EW and Warlocks where almost whole 'core' is maintained making it just as effective for everyone (no matter the mentals) - contrary to melee laymans or even oots (where u want to spam these heals).

[Draugor]

Ohh - another thing - imho success of layman spells should rely heavily on mental stats - ogres being able to use Warlocks/EW to (almost) full extend - due to the fact that almost all core spells are 'maintained' is a bit silly. It could also nerf the current fotm combo (Goblin+fighter occ+ EW/Warlock lay) a bit.

Race is and should not be a factor in balance In that case we'd have to take a look at how dodge works due to heavy dex races for instance. Spells are already effected by intelligence

Am I sayig race? Noone prevent you from focusing on mentals as a goblin.

You forgot to mention lot of specials heavily affected by strength in your 'list'. Spells are affected by intelligence? Maintained ones?

So you want to take into consideration "Do they allow goblins"? Really? You do how utterly insane that sounds? But okay, that would mean all guilds but SU, SS, knights aaaaaand... rangers? On the fighterside getting a nerf Doesent really sound reasonable? Or do you want to target a specific combo? Like the one you mentioned? Seriously?

All spells for effect if I recall, int is spelleffect, (unless its set coded), manapool and memory, wisdom is regen

Aye yes, most specials beeing mainly str is silly and str pays a to huge part in combat, hell even Calians have started going goblin cause "white" hits from high str is to valuable, it makes more sense than the old 100% xp system, but its still silly

[Amberlee]

While the racial imbalance should be looked at, it has nothing to do with how to balance guilds.
If you balance a melee guild to goblins, you will effectively invalidate everything else as an option.
Same if you balance a caster guild to elf.

Well for me it's obvious that goblin should work better in melee guild and elf should work better in casting guild.

Unluckily it's not the case in EW and Warlocks where almost whole 'core' is maintained making it just as effective for everyone (no matter the mentals) - contrary to melee laymans or even oots (where u want to spam these heals).

And for some spells that is exactly the case.
No, not the buffs but nor should the stats matter.

[Ody]

Warlocks healspell isn't going away as it's the only healspell accessible on laymanlevel for evils in the game, while the goodies have access to many. Balance parity is important in this regard, and I'm sure you can agree on that.

Wrong.

EW and Minstrels are both accessible to evil characters.

[Draugor]

Warlocks healspell isn't going away as it's the only healspell accessible on laymanlevel for evils in the game, while the goodies have access to many. Balance parity is important in this regard, and I'm sure you can agree on that.

Wrong.

EW and Minstrels are both accessible to evil characters.

Technically yes but with the gigantic goodie vibe we both know its not an even close to equal setting there

Well minstrels are but we're talking guilds that dont just waste your tax.

[Amberlee]

Warlocks healspell isn't going away as it's the only healspell accessible on laymanlevel for evils in the game, while the goodies have access to many. Balance parity is important in this regard, and I'm sure you can agree on that.

Wrong.

EW and Minstrels are both accessible to evil characters.

Is really EW open to evils?
If you think codewise, then sure.
Reality is.. No.

As for minstrels, let's keep the guilds that aren't recoded away from the discussion shall we?
For laymen guilds it's pretty much in the far back of the shortbus.

[Greneth]

Don't know why people keep going on about EW, they have the simplest of rules for their lore. Don't be undead, don't be an undead lover and don't be a douche to the Council/EC*. There have been many many many evil EW who have had no problems following these simple rules. There are several other things to point out the holes at but their neutrality isn't one of them. Just because Syrk couldn't behave doesn't mean the whole guild hates evils and none are allowed.

[Amberlee]

Don't know why people keep going on about EW, they have the simplest of rules for their lore. Don't be undead, don't be an undead lover and don't be a douche to the Council/EC*. There have been many many many evil EW who have had no problems following these simple rules. There are several other things to point out the holes at but their neutrality isn't one of them. Just because Syrk couldn't behave doesn't mean the whole guild hates evils and none are allowed.

Well they are a "neutral" layman under the control of a super goodie guild.
A super goodie guild with close ties to other goodie guilds.

[Draugor]

Don't know why people keep going on about EW, they have the simplest of rules for their lore. Don't be undead, don't be an undead lover and don't be a douche to the Council/EC*. There have been many many many evil EW who have had no problems following these simple rules. There are several other things to point out the holes at but their neutrality isn't one of them. Just because Syrk couldn't behave doesn't mean the whole guild hates evils and none are allowed.

Kinda hard not to when people keep harping on laymanguilds having good magic when they have been around for ages and the same people crying havent said a word?

[Kvator]

Kinda hard not to when people keep harping on laymanguilds having good magic when they have been around for ages and the same people crying havent said a word?

Imho ppl that cried A LOT when the issue was smaller and not crying at all when half of the mud is affected are way more intriguing.

Or it's just business as usual: personal affiliations are more important than overall guild-balance in the game?