Perma-saving items

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Arman
Wizard
Posts: 602
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Arman » 18 Nov 2019 11:44

Hi everyone,

As a global issue, this is the admin's #1. We haven't got an agreed solution for it yet (not even close.. lots of screwed up plans on the drawing table), but as Cherek outlined above the prevalence of unbreakable weapons in the game is becoming an exponential issue.

So I am thinking - if we don't have a solution in place by the end of the year - come 1 January 2020 all unbreakable items will become non-saving in the same way the ogres Sledgehammer (and other equipment) is. That means they won't save on players when they log out, and that they will only survive until Armageddon.

So... raising this now to allow discussion well in advance of implementation. Thoughts?

Thalric
Great Adventurer
Posts: 173
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Thalric » 18 Nov 2019 13:03

Excellent.

But in general I would rather see a return to the old system.
Things last mostly for ½1 armageddon, and perhaps one more if you're insanely lucky.

I get it that the change was made to cater to the young people, who are used to everything saving on them, but it really just doesn't fit into the game that Genesis is.
Things are done differently here, and it really isn't that hard to get used to. And it worked, for decades.

Yeren
Beginner
Posts: 14
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 19:59

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Yeren » 18 Nov 2019 13:47

Hi Arman, thanks for your update.

I must say - as a fighter - the proposal is quite unfair. Why? Well, I just imbued my sword with a pronounced stone.
It took me about 6 (SIX) months of more-than-casual play to gather the input stones... Now you are saying that this
kind of effort will yield me just a few days play time?

I would say "normal" players have about 5-7 sessions of genesis fun in one arma cycle.
Saving half a year to use up in a week? Hmm, kinda harsh terms I would say....

Solution?
Something along the lines of Tarlok earlier here.
Instead of making all items nonperma, make all weapons/armours last XX time.
This achieves at least two goals in one time: resolves perma imbalance and promotes deversity.
There are so many fine items coded in genesis; now they are totally not used...

I would propose that non-imbued items would last 2 weeks of playtime (2 armas)
However if an item would be imbued, its duration should be significantly longer, like 2 months of playtime?

This would promote usage of imbuements, which I find otherwise would be just useless.
So much fine content of the game would become "too much hassle". Please don't allow this.

Best,
Y.

Yeren
Beginner
Posts: 14
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 19:59

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Yeren » 18 Nov 2019 13:57

Might I add that the above solution is probably least time- and effort-consuming.

Just make all items last 2 armas, and imbued ones 2 months.

Deal done, balance and diversity back!

Thalric
Great Adventurer
Posts: 173
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Thalric » 18 Nov 2019 14:26

Imbued items are supposed to be rare and unique..
Not something that people run around fully stocked in.

That it has gone on for so long, has made everyone used to it being the state of affairs, and now everyone will feel this as a complete nerf when it is in reality just going a step back to what things was.
Everyone are not supposed to run around with intense and pronounced imbued weapons and armours all the time.

Shesara
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Shesara » 18 Nov 2019 15:57

Personally I miss the "old days", when it took teams to defeat the largest monsters of the game. I would likely have another opinion if I was playing much more than I do now, granted. ;)

I agree that this has gone on for too long, to the point where the largest players can solo almost everything without beating up a sweat. It hurts the roleplayers of the game and it makes certain guilds "not wanted/needed" for teaming. So my suggestions will be minded towards teaming up with other players.

Simplest solution would be to just make items vanish as suggested by Arman, but as much as I really want this, it is not entirely fair to those who have spent months gathering such items (even though they did so while being overpowered).

My suggestion:

Classify all occupational guilds after a simple system of FIGHTER, RANGER, CLERIC, WIZARD or something along those lines and make the fighters' armours degrade slower in combat, allowing their equipment to be maintained longer because they are trained to avoid hits and take better care of their armours/weapons in combat. Clerics might be a bit worse at this and Wizards should be really lousy. Sorry, Wizards. :D
Every time the tank of a team evades a hit in combat there should also be a chance for a "stray hit" on one teammates armours, so that their armours are slowly damaged over time as well, which is again affected by your guilds' classification, allowing a non-taking DPS fighteres' armours to last longer and making DPS wizards' armours degrade faster.

Effects:
Fighters who take hits often have armours/weapons that last longer, allowing them to do what they do. Team members' armours will also degrade even though they are not taking the direct assault.

Others can solo as well, but their armours will degrade faster, which seems okay to me as it will encourage players to team up.

Classifying guilds will maybe be a problem if some guilds have the option to switch between "stances" of damage/tanking. Most guilds should be easy to classify, but those guilds who can switch stances might need a specific code inserted to allow for multiple stances.


Flame on!
Shesara's player

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Cherek
Site Admin
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 18 Nov 2019 16:26

Yeren wrote:
18 Nov 2019 13:57
Might I add that the above solution is probably least time- and effort-consuming.

Just make all items last 2 armas, and imbued ones 2 months.

Deal done, balance and diversity back!
This would in reality mean that all items a player wants can last two months since you can imbue anything you want with some crappy imbue in order to get it to save.

But perhaps we could make _everything_ (regardless of it's imbued, unbreakable or normal) last two armas? That would not really be a "nerf" of imbued items, but exactly how it worked before, when the most you could get out of an item was two armas. Except now it saves on you, and you always get two armas out of it.

Tulasi
Beginner
Posts: 23
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 18:47

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Tulasi » 18 Nov 2019 18:43

Yeren wrote:
18 Nov 2019 13:47
I must say - as a fighter - the proposal is quite unfair. Why? Well, I just imbued my sword with a pronounced stone.
It took me about 6 (SIX) months of more-than-casual play to gather the input stones... Now you are saying that this
kind of effort will yield me just a few days play time?

I would say "normal" players have about 5-7 sessions of genesis fun in one arma cycle.
Saving half a year to use up in a week? Hmm, kinda harsh terms I would say....
Sorry that you feel that, Yeren, but I have to ask - what makes this so different from how it was BEFORE the perma-save? People have been imbuing items with pronounced and intense imbues for a long long time, long before the perma-save came to be.

It doesn't only go for your selected weapon, it goes just as much for the the huge amount of azure rune-etched longswords out there, and the serrated obsidian halberds, golden tridents, carved quickwood hoopaks, giant black mauls etc etc.

I find the proposal from Arman a bit lacking though, I would rather see a change to where nonmagical items can last eternally in the saving items pool, whilst magical items, including non-magical items that has been enchanted with an imbue, will be subject to, perhaps an extended version, the same recovery system as we had before the perma-save was introduced.

This would, of course, annoy those who have items that currently are permanent and imbued, but that was never the intention of the perma-save, if it was, bring back the ironstones.

Arguing about having spent a long time getting enough imbuement power to make an item pronounced or intense is not a valid point - it was stated when this change into permasave happened that this issue would end up being adressed and the problem with it solved.

/Tulasis player

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What's up with every big-player area being alignment nerfed from evil mobs to neutral or almost neutral while the good mobs stay good?

Examples like Ghastly Keep undeads and Terel Trolls can be mentioned on the "why are these almost neutral?"

Johnny
Veteran
Posts: 226
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 09:33
Location: Washington State

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Johnny » 18 Nov 2019 19:01

For unbreakable weapons, can they be tagged like ogre items and just last 1 arma?

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nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 308
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by nils » 18 Nov 2019 22:48

Foreversaving items is the worst that has happened to this game, ever. Even the theft-mud of old pales in comparison when measured against the damage it has done.

Now I'd say admit your mistakes and revert back to the trusty old system, but I fear people have gotten so used to this, and subsequently become so "imbue and gear fat" I find it hard to believe they will find motivation to continue being "worse off".

Tough choice.

The old system worked for 20+ years.
This new shit? Worth getting rid of, if not for experienced players then for the new ones.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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