Perma-saving items

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Lionel
Beginner
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Joined: 04 Oct 2018 17:20

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Lionel » 06 Dec 2019 10:09

That doesn't solve the issue of healing imbues, resistances and anything else that doesn't need to be worn 100% of time for you to get some utility. Can't eat the cake and have it too.

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Cherek
Site Admin
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 06 Dec 2019 12:21

sylphan wrote:
06 Dec 2019 01:10
Time-stamp imbues, then, but make the clock run only while items are worn / wielded. Wouldn't that even things out in terms of combat / non-combat? That way, you're not penalizing more casual players (and wasn't that the whole point of making stuff save on your character to begin with?).
How do you mean it's penalizing? Compared to what? Compared to the old Armageddon system the new decay system will be much more beneficial for casual players (and everyone else). But sure, ANY change will be penalizing for all players compared to the current system, but that is inevitable. Like I said, we need to compare the new decay system to the _old_ ways, and not the unrealistic and temporary system we have now.

Tarlok
Apprentice
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Tarlok » 06 Dec 2019 19:05

Has the admin decided if this new decay system will replace the existing degradation system, or will it be added in addition to the existing system? I'm recommending the former - but I dont think its clear what the intent is.

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Cherek
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 07 Dec 2019 08:12

Tarlok wrote:
06 Dec 2019 19:05
Has the admin decided if this new decay system will replace the existing degradation system, or will it be added in addition to the existing system? I'm recommending the former - but I dont think its clear what the intent is.
It'll be an addition to begin with, then we'll see. Completely redoing the whole degradation system is a much bigger project, but long-term perhaps that is what's needed., but that remains to be seen.

sylphan
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by sylphan » 07 Dec 2019 19:03

I sense a cluster approaching, that could've been avoided by sticking with the old system but adding a locker to store a few items long term. /sigh

Draugor
Myth
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Draugor » 07 Dec 2019 20:14

sylphan wrote:
07 Dec 2019 19:03
I sense a cluster approaching, that could've been avoided by sticking with the old system but adding a locker to store a few items long term. /sigh
*gasp* If only someone would have suggested that repeatedly :P

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Cherek
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 07 Dec 2019 23:06

Draugor/Sylphan: The locker idea, that has been suggested many times before, was discussed a lot before the big change was made, and long before that too. Before the change I would have agreed with you regarding lockers (I used to argue for lockers too), but having seen the effects of having stuff save on players I do not think reverting to the old system is a good idea. I think there are simply too many benefits we would lose, and many old issues that would come back, even with lockers. I listed some of these benefits in a reply to Nils earlier in this thread. And we did discuss reverting recently too, but came to the conclusion that we instead want to try to fix the issues with the new system without losing the benefits and reintroducing old problems.

As with anything, everyone are bound to have different opinions about this, obviously, and there is never just one solution to a problem, but a lot of players has also praised the new system.

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nils
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by nils » 08 Dec 2019 01:29

Praising foreversave is easy. It's convenient, you get to keep your uber gear basically forever, and you can compound more and more imbues as time goes by untill you've run out of body locations to put them. Ofcourse, any egosentric fibre of my being wants to keep this system so I can eventually rule the world. If I was only looking out for myself I'd be a fervent advocate to keep this system.

But I'd rather take off my egosentric hat and look at it in a broader perspective; what's better for the game as a whole? Which of the systems (old or new) promoted certain key aspects of gameplay? I wonder why wizards and other mortal supporters of foreversave are so keen on making the concept of guildracks obsolete. We used to take pride in keeping a well stocked rack, knowing we'd have to do it all over after next reboot. Keeping racks stacked meant teaming up with guildmates and thereby making new or strengthening existing social relations.

Knowledge of other guilds potential usefullness in putting down a challenging mob, and such invite them for that particular battle in the future also used to be a key element. Thereby strengthening social relations across guilds, and sometimes even alignment.

I look at my hat, I long for it, need it. I want to keep my imbues, my armours, my items. Remind me again, why do I play this game?

Stop the madness. Old system has worked for over two decades. Only newcomers complained, and many left. Do more stay now than before? Might this even be an important statistic to back up assumptions used as argument for foreversave? Hell, we were all newcomers once, we were all used to keeping our gear untill the next session from various games we've played before. It was weird at first. But once you got over it and accepted that this was a fundamental game mechanic, you saw the value of guilds, of racks, of growing your hemorrhoids to mid-sized boulders just to squeeze that extra few progs out of your weapon, willfully sacrificing all notion of sleep because in the morning armageddon came and took it away.

Remember when there was 8 hours between armageddons?

Come on.. Expanding from 8 hours to 12 days is already stretching said mechanic. 12 days!!
Disconnect your ego, your self-preservation. This was an interesting experiment. Can't we just agree that it produced certain expected outcomes, but simultaneously added X new unexpected ones? Chalk it up to a failure. There's no shame in going back.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
Wizard
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Arman » 08 Dec 2019 05:52

nils wrote:
08 Dec 2019 01:29
Praising foreversave is easy. It's convenient, you get to keep your uber gear basically forever, and you can compound more and more imbues as time goes by untill you've run out of body locations to put them. Ofcourse, any egosentric fibre of my being wants to keep this system so I can eventually rule the world. If I was only looking out for myself I'd be a fervent advocate to keep this system.

But I'd rather take off my egosentric hat and look at it in a broader perspective; what's better for the game as a whole? Which of the systems (old or new) promoted certain key aspects of gameplay? I wonder why wizards and other mortal supporters of foreversave are so keen on making the concept of guildracks obsolete. We used to take pride in keeping a well stocked rack, knowing we'd have to do it all over after next reboot. Keeping racks stacked meant teaming up with guildmates and thereby making new or strengthening existing social relations.

Knowledge of other guilds potential usefullness in putting down a challenging mob, and such invite them for that particular battle in the future also used to be a key element. Thereby strengthening social relations across guilds, and sometimes even alignment.

I look at my hat, I long for it, need it. I want to keep my imbues, my armours, my items. Remind me again, why do I play this game?

Stop the madness. Old system has worked for over two decades. Only newcomers complained, and many left. Do more stay now than before? Might this even be an important statistic to back up assumptions used as argument for foreversave? Hell, we were all newcomers once, we were all used to keeping our gear untill the next session from various games we've played before. It was weird at first. But once you got over it and accepted that this was a fundamental game mechanic, you saw the value of guilds, of racks, of growing your hemorrhoids to mid-sized boulders just to squeeze that extra few progs out of your weapon, willfully sacrificing all notion of sleep because in the morning armageddon came and took it away.

Remember when there was 8 hours between armageddons?

Come on.. Expanding from 8 hours to 12 days is already stretching said mechanic. 12 days!!
Disconnect your ego, your self-preservation. This was an interesting experiment. Can't we just agree that it produced certain expected outcomes, but simultaneously added X new unexpected ones? Chalk it up to a failure. There's no shame in going back.
Nils, you are sounding like a broken record. We aren't going back to the old system. Let it go.

PS and just to be really really clear... the current system, as terrible as it is, is viewed a more preferable system than the old system. The old system is behind the current system as far as options. Which means it is dead last in the options race by many lengths.

Anfalas
Wanderer
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Joined: 10 May 2016 02:41

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Anfalas » 17 Dec 2019 22:08

Any ETA when to expect changes?

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