Is death or EQ-loss worse?

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If you die and can't recover you EQ, which penalty is the worst?

Losing one fifth of your combat XP.
29
74%
Losing your EQ.
10
26%
 
Total votes: 39

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Cherek
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Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Cherek » 01 Jul 2020 12:19

I am curious what you players are most upset about when dying and losing EQ. The lost EQ or the lost XP from the death?

sylphan
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by sylphan » 01 Jul 2020 14:09

Has there been some sort of uproar about this? I'm not "upset" about either. Death ought to have consequences, and how Genesis handles it is reasonable, especially given that it's often possible to locate the corpse and get the EQ anyway.

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Cherek
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Cherek » 01 Jul 2020 14:57

sylphan wrote:
01 Jul 2020 14:09
Has there been some sort of uproar about this? I'm not "upset" about either. Death ought to have consequences, and how Genesis handles it is reasonable, especially given that it's often possible to locate the corpse and get the EQ anyway.
No uproar, just me being curious what people feel is the worst blow. I was thinking mainly a PVP death, where the EQ _is_ lost and your XP too. I am just pondering if we really need the double penalty, or if one of them would be enough, and if so, which one is worse.

Amberlee
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Amberlee » 01 Jul 2020 16:37

Neither.
Keep death as is, maybe even penalize it more.
Don't make the game lose any and all meaning.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

sylphan
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by sylphan » 01 Jul 2020 17:29

Cherek wrote:
01 Jul 2020 14:57
sylphan wrote:
01 Jul 2020 14:09
Has there been some sort of uproar about this? I'm not "upset" about either. Death ought to have consequences, and how Genesis handles it is reasonable, especially given that it's often possible to locate the corpse and get the EQ anyway.
No uproar, just me being curious what people feel is the worst blow. I was thinking mainly a PVP death, where the EQ _is_ lost and your XP too. I am just pondering if we really need the double penalty, or if one of them would be enough, and if so, which one is worse.
I agree with Amberlee. Framing the question as you have, on the assumption that players think death in Genesis is too harsh, will make whatever result you get seem to confirm that assumption. Why not frame the question differently? At least, you should include one more option, to keep things as they are, and maybe more (to include ways of making death penalties harsher). That way, you'd get a more accurate sense of how the community actually feels, rather than forcing them into a probably false dichotomy.

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Okotok
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Okotok » 01 Jul 2020 17:41

The weakness of a voluntary survey such as this is that it over-represents people with the most ardent opinion, and leaves out the people who feel less strongly. It's called voluntary response bias in statistics. To truly know what the population feels which is worse, you would randomly select a certain number of players and interview them that way.

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Dhez
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Dhez » 01 Jul 2020 19:14

Please don't make Genesis even easier and more individualistic than it is now.

If we reduce the harshness of death in terms of experience, we end up with even worse size inflation.
If we reduce the harshness of death in terms of equipment, we end up with walking armories.

There really is no need. Could we please rather focus on things that build a sense of community and promote interactions? In the end that is the charm of an online game. Players who have been around for decades always remember interactions and individuals, not experience or gear.

However, to humbly answer your question with my opinion, Cherek: newbies will always resent losing gear more than exp since they have so little xp and it's so easy to regain it. Gear, however, is harder to come by for them. Bigger players will always hate having to be on recovery because it takes anything from weeks to months depending on how big you are, especially when others can burn through areas faster.
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a challenge.
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Anfalas
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Anfalas » 01 Jul 2020 19:23

Death recovery is a finite amount of time based on how much effort you put towards grinding.

Recovery of EQ is extremely random and would likely take longer to acquire the items versus recovering from a death. Even at Myth. If you're under myth in size, it's definitely easier to recover from the death.

The rarity of most equipment is quite high these days.

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Cherek
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by Cherek » 01 Jul 2020 21:38

Just because I made a poll about this doesn't mean we're going to dramtiacally change death penalty. I currently have no intention of changing the PVE death penalty, we were simply brainstorming some ideas about potentially changing what happens when you die in PVP.

I am perfectly aware that a poll here doesn't give an accurate representation of what the Genesis population think about this, and I am also aware, just like Dhez said, that how you feel about this will likely also depend on your mortal level.

Personally I've never felt that losing 1/5th of you combat XP + EQ gives "meaning" to PVP in Genesis. Often it makes people who die feel like quitting the game, and sometimes the killer feels guilty about it too. If that happens, it's a lose-lose situtation where neither side is happy. I know some players do like making their enemies "suffer", and feel that if you kill someone it should hurt. But is that really the best system we can come up with? A system where your own enjoyment is based on how much other players suffer? I would personally very much prefer that dying in PVP stings a little, and winning is rewarded, instead of how it is now.

However, I agree that the current penalty is good, and needed, for PVE. We tried death on vacation once, and I don't think anyone liked it (myself included), because suddenly nothing felt dangerous in the world anymore.

sylphan
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Re: Is death or EQ-loss worse?

Post by sylphan » 01 Jul 2020 21:59

1. So you're not interested in whether players do think death via PVP is too harsh? Rather, because you've already decided that it is, you just want to know which aspect players would prefer to have less harsh?

2. If I've got it wrong, and you have not already decided PVP death is too harsh, I don't understand why you didn't add choices like "it's fine how it is" and "making it harsher would be good for the game."

3. If I've got it right, why bother asking players which aspect they want less harsh when you're not asking the more fundamental question of whether they want a change on this point at all?

Maybe this sounds sharp or critical or something. I don't mean it to. I'm just perplexed about the point of the whole thing, and I'm trying to understand.

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