Fact-checking and critical thinking

Here, look for all manner of scoops, commentary, and general nonsense from the Keeper himself.
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Amberlee
Myth
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Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Amberlee » 02 Jul 2020 17:26

Thing is.
Kvator knows NOTHING about Fire Knives.
There are some who do but they don't engage people like Kvator in discussion.
He is nothing but a troll that dislikes the way his guild has allocated it's powers and lashes out at anyone he can to make it "right".
Quite pathetic if you ask me.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 642
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Kvator » 02 Jul 2020 17:39

Amberlee wrote:
02 Jul 2020 17:26
Quite pathetic if you ask me.
Thanks bud!

It sounds like the best compliment ever coming from you! :***

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Cherek
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Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Cherek » 02 Jul 2020 17:54

Kvator wrote:
02 Jul 2020 16:50
I gave two facts (quote I heard from a wizard + guild created by a wizard) -> and then wrote what points from your 'conspiracy list' could one easily make after connecting the dots here.
What you presented aren't proof or facts, they are your opinions. You are of course entitled to your opinions, but when strong opinions are spread without any actual facts to back them up I don't think it's beneficial to anyone. What good can ever come out of it? If you're truly concerned that a particular wizard is not doing their job, and IS actually biased, go to someone in the admin with your concern. My door is always open.
Kvator wrote: You seems biased actually (player criticising something = rumour spreader that can't even check his facts or something). I actually gave my conclusion at very beginning:
I did read your conclusion, but like I said, it's only your opinion, in this case basically a guess based on what Arman told you about rogue guilds caid, and the opening of FK a while later, a guild you feel is more powerful. Even if this is true, I also provided you with a long list of possible explanations other than wizard-bias, which you completely dismissed. You can of course criticise things you feel aren't working well, by all means, but then at least let us talk about it. All I am asking is that you talk to us, either privately, or through the forums, and bring up your concerns in the open. It's the rumours that are spread around as truths that I think are problematic, not the criticism itself.

And about Kenders...

Why on earth would we be against _kenders_? Seriously? :) Can you come up with one reasonable explanation why me, Arman, Mirandus, and Carnak (who all in some way were involved in the recode) would be anti-kender biased? Why would we want the kender guild to fail? What reason could we have for that?

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Cherek
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Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Cherek » 02 Jul 2020 18:11

Amberlee/Kvator: Please take your personal vendetta to the flames or you'll both be banned from the forums. I've warned you enough times I think. It's fine to disagree, but lets stay away from insulting each other outside the flames section.

Celemir: No I think I understood you. I agree that it sometimes can be _seen_ as wizards favor one side or the other. Basically ANY code change we do, or any decision by the AoP can be seen as bias towards someone. And when two or more things happens in succession, players start to connect those famous "dots", and suddenly there is a percieved pattern. I was just trying to point out there are many other possible explanations as well. In this specific case I think all of them are more likely than some sort of anti-kender bias. Including "we're amateurs who don't know what we're doing".

In a way I guess it's a compliment that people have so much faith in our coding and game design abilities that they feel it's more likely we are corrupt than incompetent :)

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 157
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Nerull » 02 Jul 2020 18:27

Hi,

I am the one who designed and coded the Fire Knifes of Faerun. Feel free to ask me any questions about the guild in this thread - why it was created and whatever else you wish to know. Hopefully, it will help diminishing some of the conspiracy theories (if any) connected to that guild in particular.

Greneth
Wizard
Posts: 206
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Greneth » 02 Jul 2020 18:34

Cherek wrote:
02 Jul 2020 17:54

And about Kenders...

Why on earth would we be against _kenders_? Seriously? :) Can you come up with one reasonable explanation why me, Arman, Mirandus, and Carnak (who all in some way were involved in the recode) would be anti-kender biased? Why would we want the kender guild to fail? What reason could we have for that?
Because if you add up all the letters in the names of the four people who worked on it, it equals 25. 25/5 is 5.

Seems innocent right?

Five sounds like hive, hives have bees, bees... b is the second letter in the alphabet, the alphabet is also called the ABC's, C as in Cassius, Cassius is a member of a guild in Krynn, Krynn is also apart of Ansalon in the Tower of Realms, the Tower of Realms has Orbs, there is only one orb per room and its shaped like an eye, eye has three letters, pyramid sides look like triangles and triangles are made up of three sides. Illuminati Wizard Conspiracy Confirmed.

Image

Kvator
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Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Kvator » 02 Jul 2020 18:53

Cherek wrote:
02 Jul 2020 17:54
What you presented aren't proof or facts, they are your opinions. You are of course entitled to your opinions, but when strong opinions are spread without any actual facts to back them up I don't think it's beneficial to anyone. What good can ever come out of it? If you're truly concerned that a particular wizard is not doing their job, and IS actually biased, go to someone in the admin with your concern. My door is always open.
So I heard 'Caid limitations' quote in my imagination.
Also Fire Knives is non existing - just my imagination.

(you might say that I am connecting dots wrongly or something like that, but dont tell me that 'wizard created Fire Knives' is my opinion lol)
Cherek wrote:
02 Jul 2020 17:54
in this case basically a guess based on what Arman told you about rogue guilds caid
Where I wrote that it was Arman's quote? Wait a second! Are you making _assumptions_?!? (gasp emote)
Cherek wrote:
02 Jul 2020 17:54

And about Kenders...

Why on earth would we be against _kenders_? Seriously? :) Can you come up with one reasonable explanation why me, Arman, Mirandus, and Carnak (who all in some way were involved in the recode) would be anti-kender biased? Why would we want the kender guild to fail? What reason could we have for that?
Never said wizards were anti-kender biased. That's just what results suggest :)
Last application post on board -> 2,5 years ago
Last invited kender -> over 2 years ago
Last post in guildhall board -> 1 year ago
Last time I saw anyone else except me in kenlist -> hard to remember (although I got message from old kender that woke up for a moment few weeks ago!!!)
Cherek wrote:
02 Jul 2020 18:11
Amberlee/Kvator: Please take your personal vendetta to the flames or you'll both be banned from the forums. I've warned you enough times I think. It's fine to disagree, but lets stay away from insulting each other outside the flames section.
Seriously?!? Again you are threatening me with consequences because Amberlee is calling me an idiot / pathethic etc. Looks like bias to me tbh :)
Nerull wrote:
02 Jul 2020 18:27
Hi,

I am the one who designed and coded the Fire Knifes of Faerun. Feel free to ask me any questions about the guild in this thread - why it was created and whatever else you wish to know. Hopefully, it will help diminishing some of the conspiracy theories (if any) connected to that guild in particular.
1a -> what's the point/idea of this guild?
1b -> how many assassinations (npc-excluded) were performed already?
2 -> how it's possible that non-fighter guild have so high melee-dmg output (are there no CAID limitations after all)?
3 -> are there any race restrictions in this guild (goblin* assassins? c'mon) -> it might sounds like it's of no-importance but please keep in mind that other rogue guilds are restricted in this area (with two being heavy restricted to 1 race)

* alright -> in normal fantasy setup it sounds relevant, but in normal fantasy setups goblins are not behemots with str/con of a dwarf xD

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Cherek
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Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Cherek » 02 Jul 2020 19:08

Kvator: No I didn't assume you meant Arman, I must have confused it with your other post where you mentioned Arman. My bad. And I am not saying you were not told what you were told (by whoeever it was) and I am obviously not denying the existence of Fire Knives either :) What I meant, (which I think you know too), is that those two events have led to your _opinion_ that you think there is wizard bias going on here. It's still very far from a fact, and merely your theory, and yes I definitely think you've connected the dots wrongly here.

Anyway, we're just going in circles now I think. If you want to discuss this further it's better to do it in a private "face to face" discussion I think, so we can talk openly about your guild's abilities, etc, instead of being limited by forum rules. Clearly we have different opinions about this, but like I said, my door is open.

One quick question though, why do you expect to see new applications in in a free to join guild...? I don't think you can measure popularity that way anymore since the need to apply and be voted in was removed quite some time ago. That said, it's no secet it's one of the least popular guilds, which I think is sad too.

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 157
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Nerull » 02 Jul 2020 19:29

Kvator wrote:
02 Jul 2020 18:53

1a -> what's the point/idea of this guild?
1b -> how many assassinations (npc-excluded) were performed already?
2 -> how it's possible that non-fighter guild have so high melee-dmg output (are there no CAID limitations after all)?
3 -> are there any race restrictions in this guild (goblin* assassins? c'mon) -> it might sounds like it's of no-importance but please keep in mind that other rogue guilds are restricted in this area (with two being heavy restricted to 1 race)

* alright -> in normal fantasy setup it sounds relevant, but in normal fantasy setups goblins are not behemots with str/con of a dwarf xD
1a; Evil side lacked a rogue guild, hence the existence of this guild. Thematics, you might read about them in Sparkle library.
1b: I guess you have to ask the members about this.
2: All guilds follow certain caid limitations. FK don't break this general rule or limitation.
3: I guess you need to inquire with members on this one. On a general note, there are tons of goblin, orcs etc that are assassins in Forgotten realms, so not sure I see issues with those races picking up daggers to assassinate somebody, or to be members of rogue or assassin outfits. Racial limitations might be more about thematics and design rather than game rules and limitations.


Happy to help. :)

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 642
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Fact-checking and critical thinking

Post by Kvator » 02 Jul 2020 19:49

Nerull wrote:
02 Jul 2020 19:29

1a; Evil side lacked a rogue guild, hence the existence of this guild. Thematics, you might read about them in Sparkle library.
1b: I guess you have to ask the members about this.
2: All guilds follow certain caid limitations. FK don't break this general rule or limitation.
3: I guess you need to inquire with members on this one. On a general note, there are tons of goblin, orcs etc that are assassins in Forgotten realms, so not sure I see issues with those races picking up daggers to assassinate somebody, or to be members of rogue or assassin outfits. Racial limitations might be more about thematics and design rather than game rules and limitations.
So basically with proper min-maxing (I guess races are not counted in CAID still) willing wizard can achieve great (from powerplay perspective) results.

Thank you for confirmation!

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