The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

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sylphan
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Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by sylphan » 11 Sep 2020 04:15

I can understand why killing a good-aligned creature would make one less "good," more "evil." I cannot understand why killing an evil-aligned creature would necessarily make one more "good." If it's a knight killing a soldier of the BDA, ok, I get it. The knight is on a crusade or whatever to rid Krynn of the evil dragon armies, which is an action toward the "good." Got it. But why would an already evil creature become less evil for killing another evil creature? Wouldn't it make a creature even more evil if it slaughtered its own kind? The current setup seems like a nonsensical compromise between some kind of Manichaeism, such that every guild falls into a metaphysically absolute category of "good" or "evil," and a faction system in which killing within one's own faction lowers one's standing within that faction. This compromise makes no sense at all, though. Arrant nonsense, I say.

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Arman
Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Arman » 11 Sep 2020 05:28

Yep. No arguments here.

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Mim
Rising Hero
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Location: Behind your back

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Mim » 11 Sep 2020 08:07

This is a game.
There are 1000s of nonsenses in it.
Why do we care so much about this one?

Drazson
Hero
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Drazson » 11 Sep 2020 08:46

Yep, you're right.

Factions create the grounds for all kinds of player interaction. Right now that "factions" part is alignment for all of us and some specific guild vs guild situations. Alignment somehow had to be implemented so we're here.

In time, we might get more blanket faction-like systems like the war in Krynn. I think Arman or another Wizzie said it's within their intentions too.

Fairlight
Apprentice
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Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:57

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Fairlight » 11 Sep 2020 09:08

It is usually like this in a fantasy setting. There are "rules"!

Players need to bring 3 things.

*Skill
*Commitment
*Imagination

If you do you get an experience.

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Mim
Rising Hero
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Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Location: Behind your back

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Mim » 11 Sep 2020 11:11

Fairlight wrote:
11 Sep 2020 09:08
It is usually like this in a fantasy setting. There are "rules"!

Players need to bring 3 things.

*Skill
*Commitment
*Imagination

If you do you get an experience.
This was a beautiful post.
One of a kind.

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 158
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Nerull » 11 Sep 2020 12:41

"Good is a point of view, Anakin." - Uncle Palpatine. :twisted:

sylphan
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Posts: 230
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by sylphan » 11 Sep 2020 13:01

Mim wrote:
11 Sep 2020 08:07
This is a game.
There are 1000s of nonsenses in it.
Why do we care so much about this one?
Probably for the same reason you care enough about my apparently inconsequential post to respond to it.

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 158
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Nerull » 11 Sep 2020 13:14

It's an old inperfect system the game has been using for a very long time. There are probably more modern approaches to this that could be explored, but which requires some larger incursion of code.

Evil and Good, are more like dear uncle Palpatine said, just viewpoints. They are subjective.

One could use the general population of civilians/folks as a baseline to determine what is "good" and "evil", which would probably fall in somewhere "what is good for us/welfare for us/our lives/security", and maybe Genesis good and evil is a version of that.

One alterlative method is the use of factions - by killing an orc in sparkle, you get a faction point in the positive direction of the general population of Sparkle, while goblinoids might start to look at you with some more dubious eyes.

Old Everquest have an simple version of this one, and same do WoW and other onlinegames.


So, by killing a lot of orcs, the rumour about you killing greenskin might traverse continents, and the AA recruiter, shef and the general snaga mopping the guildhalls might be abit more dubious to the likes of you, or perhaps even more hostile, shop denial etc, and wont be recruited unless you change your ways in a convincing way.

Naturally, killing elves en masse means the greenskins may have a second opinion about you, but at the same time, odds are the pointyears wont allow you beyond their borders in the forests.. :D

Playing chess with Sauron? Rangers wont like you. Murdering Palanthas denizens? The Knights may have a (s)word or two with you etc.

Can it be implemented? sure. Also not that hard to create, but requires time, and wizards willing to dedicate themselves for the cause. The latter is the hardest these days.

Amberlee
Myth
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Re: The Nonsense of Genesis Alignment

Post by Amberlee » 11 Sep 2020 13:35

sylphan wrote:
11 Sep 2020 04:15
I can understand why killing a good-aligned creature would make one less "good," more "evil." I cannot understand why killing an evil-aligned creature would necessarily make one more "good." If it's a knight killing a soldier of the BDA, ok, I get it. The knight is on a crusade or whatever to rid Krynn of the evil dragon armies, which is an action toward the "good." Got it. But why would an already evil creature become less evil for killing another evil creature? Wouldn't it make a creature even more evil if it slaughtered its own kind? The current setup seems like a nonsensical compromise between some kind of Manichaeism, such that every guild falls into a metaphysically absolute category of "good" or "evil," and a faction system in which killing within one's own faction lowers one's standing within that faction. This compromise makes no sense at all, though. Arrant nonsense, I say.
Completely agree and the same argument has been made for years.
Hells I even think most of the admin agrees.
The undertaking of changing the system would be massive though.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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