Racial Rebalancing News?

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Zhar
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Zhar » 07 Jan 2021 03:09

Then we can simply come back to all races being human. Then you can set your stats as you wish but perhaps there could be a bit more control over the distribution (maybe some tweaked version of old system where you could set each stat priority individually).
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Skythus
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Skythus » 07 Jan 2021 04:49

I like the idea of setting attributes in character creation, such as alignment. Although this would drive us closer to class-based, an "all human stats" system with variants toward warrior, mage, and thief would be interesting.

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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Rache » 07 Jan 2021 15:42

Skythus wrote:
07 Jan 2021 04:49
I like the idea of setting attributes in character creation, such as alignment. Although this would drive us closer to class-based, an "all human stats" system with variants toward warrior, mage, and thief would be interesting.
I agree, and it would be significantly better than things are now.

Thalric
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Thalric » 07 Jan 2021 19:04

If this is the way to go... the only question left is how much/little you are able to put in a stat.
If it should be that max can be 5x lowest, like in the old days...
Or if the general plan is to reign in the huge differences and say it can only be 2x or 3x...

I like the idea of removing all racial bonuses and just use this.
Then you can be a huge dex dwarf, or a very clumsy hobbit.. but so be it.

Quantum
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Quantum » 04 Feb 2021 20:42

I can't seem to figure out where this racial balancing ended. Are all races going to be neutralized and turned into human stats? If so, why?

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Zhar
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Zhar » 04 Feb 2021 23:01

Quantum wrote:
04 Feb 2021 20:42
I can't seem to figure out where this racial balancing ended. Are all races going to be neutralized and turned into human stats? If so, why?
It didn't end as it hasn't even begun. There's no consensus.
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Cherek
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Cherek » 05 Feb 2021 02:50

Quantum wrote:
04 Feb 2021 20:42
I can't seem to figure out where this racial balancing ended. Are all races going to be neutralized and turned into human stats? If so, why?
Yeah like Zhar said, it didn't end anywhere really, and no conclusions were reached.

But yesterday I started a brainstorming thread about possibly adding special racial abilities, that could make the races more unique and special. If we decided to go down that road, it would mean the stat modifiers also would benormalized to human stats, or close to. But, that's a big IF. Right now I simply asked for some brainstorming help regarding this ideaa. It's one of a gazillion of ideas on this subject... but one I kinda like, so I think it's worth exploring further. I think it's interesting because it could make our races much more balanced than they are today, provide players with more options, and make each race feel more unique.

Now, this does NOT mean there has been any decision of any kind and there has been a total of ZERO lines of code written for any sort of racial change project. So, it's all very much up in the air at this point.

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Kjartan
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Kjartan » 05 Feb 2021 03:13

If we decided to go down that road, it would mean the stat modifiers also would be normalized to human stats
Why would one lead automatically to the other? If there is concern about balance, this should be a matter of how those differences affect the progress in the game. Because I see no reason why a difference in stats AND skills should be not possible. And of story/lore I think that both even have to exist. If one compares an orc with a hobbit, I would expect their stats to be (significantly) different and their skills as well. Neither should have it easier than the other in Genesis (even though I wouldn't have an issue with it if they did, because I'm sure that some races would have an easier life than others) but the way to play them should be drastically different and the race should be acknowledged everywhere where it follows common expectations - even if it might sound pretty racist. :?

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Cherek
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Cherek » 05 Feb 2021 03:49

Kjartan wrote:
05 Feb 2021 03:13
If we decided to go down that road, it would mean the stat modifiers also would be normalized to human stats
Why would one lead automatically to the other? If there is concern about balance, this should be a matter of how those differences affect the progress in the game. Because I see no reason why a difference in stats AND skills should be not possible. And of story/lore I think that both even have to exist. If one compares an orc with a hobbit, I would expect their stats to be (significantly) different and their skills as well. Neither should have it easier than the other in Genesis (even though I wouldn't have an issue with it if they did, because I'm sure that some races would have an easier life than others) but the way to play them should be drastically different and the race should be acknowledged everywhere where it follows common expectations - even if it might sound pretty racist. :?
No, one doesn't automatically have to lead to another. But in this particular suggestion it does. You could of course have stat differences AND racial abilities. But doing that would not fix the current imbalance, so it would just be a big project that basically does nothing but add more stuff, without making the races more balanced.

Right now, the races in Genesis are not very balanced. Some are simply worse than others. It's like making a football game and you can pick from Real Madrid, Liverpool, and a team from the Estonian second division. Why would anyone pick the Estonian team?:) Yes, a slight exaggeration, but I think this is problematic, and I want all our races to be equally playable. Stats are very important in Genesis, but not all stats are equally important. Some are very important regardless if you play a caster or fighter (CON for example), others are only important for specific tasks, and some have very little use at all (DIS). The only solutions I can think of that would make it truly balanced would be to remove the stat differences and replace them without something else that IS balanced OR make all stats equally useful, and then make sure all races have the same "+" and "-" in various stats. I think the second option is far more complex and much harder to accomplish, and we would still end up with some races being more suitable for specific guilds and playstyles. So, even after all that work many players would still pick race based on power, rather than who you want to RP.

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Zhar
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Zhar » 05 Feb 2021 03:50

So, a bit of context for the newer players who haven't been around that long:

How some of the game mechanisms work and how current stat distribution is implemented favors certain races heavily in some contexts. For example goblins are thought of as the best race for combat as they have no drawbacks in the physical stats and very good bonuses to strength and constitution. Likewise, humans are currently the best spellcasters because there's a problem with the magic system where it doesn't scale properly with your mental stats so your physical stats become more important (Arman is working on a fix for that). This leads to some races being considered sub-par in most scenarios (elves).

You should note however, that the game is changing and evolving and the racial balance with it. In the past it was hobbits who ruled the combat department when strength was not factored in for melee damage and dexterity was used in its place.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe we could change the combat formulas again? We could maybe make it so that your best stat is used for damage (str or dex) and perhaps your hp pool/natural AC could be governed by more than 1 stat (con and wis for example, making dwarfs more hardy than goblins). Perhaps that's an avenue worth investigating as this way we could potentially balance out the races combat-wise without altering their stat progression.
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