PVP Changes.

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Thalric
Expert
Posts: 265
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: PVP Changes.

Post by Thalric » 11 Apr 2021 16:35

How about keeping things as they are now, until the magic changes are also done.
I am sure the magic users would also like some "not as dangerous" time to learn the power of their abilities.
Eventually they are likely to return to their main characters, when something happens with those changes. Then time will show if they stay, or if it nerfs magic into uselessness.

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3201
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: PVP Changes.

Post by Cherek » 11 Apr 2021 17:13

Thalric wrote:
11 Apr 2021 16:35
How about keeping things as they are now, until the magic changes are also done.
I am sure the magic users would also like some "not as dangerous" time to learn the power of their abilities.
Eventually they are likely to return to their main characters, when something happens with those changes. Then time will show if they stay, or if it nerfs magic into uselessness.
You make a good point. I'll talk it over with Carnak and we'll see.

Targun
Adept
Posts: 109
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 01:31

Re: PVP Changes.

Post by Targun » 11 Apr 2021 21:33

Cherek wrote:
17 Mar 2021 18:55
Taro wrote:
17 Mar 2021 14:12
So when are we getting these things back? The changes have stopped, for the time being...
Carnak is, as you know, working on spellcaster balance. I hope we will be able to re-enable the PVP tools along with the next "patch", which I think will come fairly soon. As you know we wizards rarely want to make promises of specific dates, but the goal is of course to complete these major changes as soon as possible, and don't leave some players in a "void" waiting for updates. The less time we spend in that void, the better.

I don't think it's a good idea to be honest. While my char is highly unlikely to participate in PvP and as such is practically unaffected, I - as a player - disagree with the philosophy behind attempts of making PvP on Genesis viable, in general. Namely, instead of utilizing core game mechanics and building on top of that with iterations of interesting abilities that increase your chances of succeeding by some margin, but still focus on skill and the choices you make, we tend to end up with a bit rushed or half-baked solutions, which often follow the logic of "ALL-OR-NOTHING" a.k.a. "BIG RED I WIN BUTTON".

These not only promote scripting and botting, but even more so promote grieving and cause understandable frustration of the victims. That's because, no matter what they do, they are dead as they make them the moment someone decides to kill them, by the use of instant stun abilities or a block that will take way longer to pass than die. It is bound to fail and cause extreme reactions, given how much time people dedicate to their characters.

To provide an example from the opposite spectrum. A great tool like fatigue is barely utilized. There could (and should be) abilities that increase the pace your fatigue is drained, by a moderate amount for couple minutes. Also, your fatigue should be tightly tied to the pace you move at (automatically punishes speed walking). That's an example of a good design. It promotes planning and thinking ahead, having someone in your team that can track well, splitting your team in several smaller groups to harass enemy like a pack of wolves and finally pinning them when they are exhausted.

And this is just one tiny example... there are so many great options available to actually make PvP interesting and promote skills and knowledge. However, I believe Genesis keeps going into extremes in this department. We previously had almost a decade when PvP was virtually impossible, unless you were a member of a specific guild and now we have people that will die in one ogre stomp or a single block.

There's also a matter of CAID, which I think should be addressed and completed first. I don't want to go into too much details here, but I think there are some major flaws in the concepts of how things are calculated (and I don't mean white hits vs specials drama). It seems to me, some guilds have so many abilities and skills at such a high level that either there are scenarios where CAID of these abilities is vastly undervalued, or in some clever way don't pay CAID for their abilities and skills at all... or get "negative" CAID for restrictions that are vastly exaggerated to squeeze in "actual power".

EDIT: oops, I think I reported your post Cherek, instead of replying. I hope you find a fitting punishment for yourself, whatever was the offensive thing you did. I'm sure you're guilty of something!

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 645
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: PVP Changes.

Post by Kvator » 12 Apr 2021 00:43

Targun wrote:
11 Apr 2021 21:33
....
+1 !

Dan
Wanderer
Posts: 65
Joined: 25 Jan 2015 10:38

Re: PVP Changes.

Post by Dan » 12 Apr 2021 04:33

Kvator wrote:
12 Apr 2021 00:43
Targun wrote:
11 Apr 2021 21:33
....
+1 !
+1

Bringing back movement stuns will be a massacre and loss of so many months of work in less than a movement timers time.

If the original design was to movement stun people where it took 30 seconds to kill your target, and now it takes 10 seconds, the movement stuns should as minimum be divided by 3 also to have the same effect, else they've tripled in effect without effecting guild taxes.

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