The auction house - a ridiculous solution...

[Goirbagh]

...that caters to modern real-life needs rather than in-game creativity.

How is it that I have a magical paddle that not only hums, but somehow magically lets me list everything on sale and see exactly, in detail, every item, the price, the highest bidder, etc. It's developed like a tool for wizards. It's too easy to bid on items.

The paddle can hum - I don't have a problem with that per se, but I would wish for the auction house to work like this:

1. To put an item up for auction, you go to the auction house. Like it is now - I think the process is fine.

2. To see what items are on sale, you go to the auction house. The glass cages that the gnome puts them in should be up for display. You can't see what items are on sale unless you visit the auction house. This would create incentives for people to actually visit the auction house, and it would create an incentive for socializing around Sparkle - you can't bid on items from across the world.

3. For auctions, maybe they should even be limited to partaking in actual auctions, like the auction quest. I think this might be taking it too far, so unsure about this.

As for the auction house, maybe it should be an actual house in Sparkle with different rooms for different kinds of items. I.e., one room with glass cages containing armors, another room with weapons and so forth. Maybe even with guards going around ensuring that things are in order.

Will this make it more cumbersome to buy items? YES
Will this make items less available to many players? YES
Will this be annoying to power gamers? YES
Will it make the game more sociable and creative? YES

This "everything to everyone immediately" culture where you don't need to spend time, you don't need to accomplish things, you don't need skill - everyone should just magically be allowed to have it all - is creeping into Genesis. It's a societal direction which I utterly despise. The entire concept of reward is built on commitment and accomplishment. If you just get things easily without any effort - the rewarding feeling is eroded.

Give me your thoughts on this.

[Thalric]

I like the idea of the AH changing.

I wouldn't mind if it became a bit more difficult. Like, you have to travel there to update the info on your paddle.
So you could still see what items are up for sale, but the information you have on prices are from last time you visited the tent.
Having to be in the tent to place a bid also sounds fine to me.

I don't like the idea of having to look at all the cases, that just makes it too difficult.

[Dakhor]

The AH has some issues yes...

1 - Some of the ppl who permanently idle have a script running that buys items at the moment they are posted if its priced at X

Solution: Dont have a good suggestion for this. Limit the amount of aulist you can do per hour maybe. I observed one person who posted about 10+ items into the AH and they were all instantly gone.

2 - Also many purchase an item at the last seconds of its availability. You can be the highest bidder up until the last seconds then ppl with scripting kicks in (this used to be the case I havent tested if this was remedied in the last year or so).

Solution: simply obfuscate the time remaining meaning the last hour or so kinda like with arma. "Action is ending any moment"...

/DaK

[Thalric]

I think the instant-buy issue has been solved.
New items are not longer listed by the next number, but by random numbers in the next 100, or something like it.
The triggers, previously, would just do a +1 to current number, and then you had the new item.
That isn't possible anymore.

The last second buy has also been fixed.
If you place a bid with less than 5? mins to go before the auction runs out, the time remaining is bumped to 5 mins. Making it a lot better for the seller of an item, since it is possible for a bidding war in the last minutes.

[Skythus]

While the paddle does seem unrealistic, I would like to avoid Sparkle role-players as long as possible (I would pay an extra fee of platinum to have it shipped to the Tower by courier.)

I think a lot of the script sniping could be prevented by not including an item number until you physically see the item in the box. The paddle could still work to view and place your bid remotely, but you can't bid on items you haven't seen in person.

Also, loiterers in the auction tent could be pickpocketed giving the Kender a positive reason to exist!

[Tapakah]

I think the instant-buy issue has been solved.
New items are not longer listed by the next number, but by random numbers in the next 100, or something like it.
The triggers, previously, would just do a +1 to current number, and then you had the new item.
That isn't possible anymore.

The last second buy has also been fixed.
If you place a bid with less than 5? mins to go before the auction runs out, the time remaining is bumped to 5 mins. Making it a lot better for the seller of an item, since it is possible for a bidding war in the last minutes.

The first issue is still problematic, since the trigger can catch the description of the item going on sale. Only if there are two identical items being auctioned, will the trigger be misled.

The second issue is indeed addressed fully.

I like the idea having to be at the AH to bid. It won't harm sales, it will just break the triggers.

T.

[kelrhys]

What an interesting proposal!

While I would never criticize anything for being magical, seeing an item you want disappear before you can blink much less make it to a bank is definitely mundane. It's a game of scripts, and Goirbagh's suggestion of requiring bidders to visit Rommik in person to bid makes it far more difficult to do so automatically and just as importantly, anonymously. Rather than a full overhaul of the auction, if the aubid command was only possible inside the auction house rather than enabled by the paddle, this could be achieved with minimal work and annoyance factor.

I can see potential for fun with in-person bidding wars instead of virtual ones from within banks across the realms. I think we may see price depreciation with fewer people making bids, but the realms won't go hungry if the market tanks.

[Cherek]

Kelrhys: A while ago that ideas was discussed on Discord, and I initially liked and tried to argue for it, but there was an overwhelming majority against it and a number of good arguments. Two of the arguments I remember was:

- it's annoying to have to abort what you are doing, drop everything, and race to Sparkle when something you like pops up.
- Players who can set a teleport location would have a BIG advantage to compared to everyone else. Yes, in the current system you can trigger it, but at least everyone, in theory, can make a trigger so it's fair that way. Making everyone go to Sparkle would be unfair because some players have abilities that let them travel to Sparkle much quicker than others.

Especially the second argument is very valid I think, and therefore I decided to not continue arguing for the "bid in Sparkle" idea:)

[Goirbagh]

I think both arguments are ridiculous.

The first argument is an example of "more of everything to everyone with no effort" which I despise. It's like a child. "I shouldn't have to choose between A and B!" Why the hell not? This is is a cultural retardation which is apparent on every level of society today. It's not a healthy way of thinking about things. Why do we want to bring that way of thinking, or accept it, into Genesis? Of COURSE you have to drop what you're doing to get something else that you like.

The second argument is inane as well. Why shouldn't certain players who choose to be in certain guilds have certain advantages over other players? This is again this new "equity" way of thinking. No one should have more than the other. But WHY? Why should someone who has more money be able to buy more items? Why should certain players be able to auction out items more successfully than others? Why should someone who has played 10 years be more strong than someone who has played one day?

The game becomes MORE interesting when there are big advantages and disadvantages to picking certain guilds over others. I don't want everyone to have the best of both worlds - or all worlds. You pick one guild, you might suck at fighting, but all of a sudden, you have an advantage with auctionhouses. You pick another one, become a killing machine - but you lose your teleport.

I swear I'm on the verge of leaving Genesis BECAUSE of this. Everyone has imbuements, everyone has magic crap, everyone can buy items, everyone is running around with skills maxed (easily done in hours today, as compared to weeks of work 20 years ago). Why not just give everyone admin rights so they can create their own utopia and spawn whatever items they want? BECAUSE IT MAKES THE GAME POINTLESS. Good lord, what is going on these days.

See my other thread. I remember a time when the game required a high level of effort. Cater to these new minds saying "hey, everyone should have everything" and you will lose the old souls - and then there will be no identity to Genesis left. Zzzzzz.

[kelrhys]

People want and do things that are against their own long term best interest all the time. To me Genesis has always been a mirror of the real world, in which choices lead to consequences that matter. Sometimes these consequences are immediate, and sometimes it takes quite a long time for them to take full effect.

While the arguments presented are concerned with fairness which is a noble motivation, the practical outcome is a lack of consequence for choices made. This has been a problem for the auction house without a fully successful solution for a long time. Also, the second argument is no longer true with the drastic changes made to the cost of teleportation.

I think a big part of Genesis' special soul revolves around this concept of choice and consequence. The flattening of guilds into mirror images of each other and heavy reliance on random chance has stolen some of that. Genesis is wonderful for attracting young socialites who slowly evolve into explorers, achievers, and eventually power players. A flattened, random system lacks the depth necessary to retain young and old alike.