Racial stats rebalance

[Nomm]

I am in favor of this, I think some races are to common, this will bring more variety to the game.

I like races being different from eachother, is it a possibility to add other differences.

What if an elf is more resistant to poisons, a hobbit to death magic (after all, Frodo did resist that ring for quite
a bit).

What if a race has a +5 to certain skills. A dwarf has +5 to appraise value, a gnome has +5 appraise object, a goblin have +5 climb etc.

Just to bring pros and cons, making the choice matter. Perhaps this boat have sailed tho.

[Archie]

Hello,

Having read the post and the comments I have a few of my own.

First off, I think that balancing out the races in general is a good idea. If one race is simply stronger (number wise, doesn't really matter what stats) than an other, and there is no real reason for it, then of course, a change is welcome.

I agree with Quantum on perhaps the decisions with D, but since a change is happening, D (or any other letter) would probably be for the better.

Two comments though.
I have long thought (and it is reflected in the anti-goblin focus some responses seem to have) that cities and quests should be more available to all races and alignments. Why can't a goblin buy a cloak and sneak into MT? Why can't it require a very high risk with patrols checking. That way they can at least enter and look around and even shop stuff. Perhaps that can also use some of the less used skills for general purposes (like language) and maybe introduce a new one (like acting or something similar).
I think the quests available in MT should have comparable quests available in MM to balance out (preferably the actual same quest identifier). This reduces the risk of someone not being able to complete things. I know some quests are like this already, but there should be more of them if there are any restrictions. This would remove the anti-goblin discussion.

Secondly, as has also been pointed out, race is only one part of it. Guilds come with the benefits/drawbacks as well. A fighter guild that uses INT for its special would be worse for a race with INT penalty than a guild using WIS. So while making the races more balanced, not all problems stem from the race alone.
Maybe the specials of the guilds (all guilds) should always apply the penalty stat, regardless of which stat that is? Then Goblins can still have strong STR (and potentially CON) but their specials go on INT (or whatever penatly stats they have).
With the recent reduction to white hits, maybe this is too large a change to effects of specials and I don't know if spells would work, but perhaps the idea is worth looking into?

Archie

[TaranGoatWalker]

If y'all orc-kind get to enter MT under disguise, and not be attacked, can I get a disguise that allows me to walk into MM? Do the quest(s?) there, post a note on the board insulting the Nine...

[Baz]

If all stats are balanced where it equalizes out at the end, then this would mean that stats are entirely player drive on their character.

If that is to be the future, then I would like to propose to change the way we focus stats. If anything, it would be great if we could adjust it much like how the Thamaturge asks you how you would like your new stats to be.

Can we put strongly prefer CON, slightly to DEX,STR, and then normal for the other three stats?
What if someone wants all 3 mentals, and then throw a little more xp into CON.
Or maybe all three in physicals, and one in Dis with the way DIS works now.

I would love it if we could move it to where we can determine how we want to allocate each stat without having to 'meditate' and switch focus on 2 of the 6 stats. Instead it'd be great if we can change the preference, with multiple levels of influence, for all 6 in meditation.

[Ckrik]

I am in favor of this, I think some races are to common, this will bring more variety to the game.

I like races being different from eachother, is it a possibility to add other differences.

What if an elf is more resistant to poisons, a hobbit to death magic (after all, Frodo did resist that ring for quite
a bit).

We've discussed similar ideas for 4-5 years. The problem is it invites even more controversy than a pure mathematical stat rebase. Also, we don't quite have the man power to do it properly.

What if a race has a +5 to certain skills. A dwarf has +5 to appraise value, a gnome has +5 appraise object, a goblin have +5 climb etc.

This is already covered by race guilds. And some races have more choices, so if someone wants to wiz and code a gnome, dwarf or goblin race guild for the community send Cherek an application.

[Quantum]

Read the announcement carefully again. All races will get buffs vs NPCs to around the same magnitude. The non-human races just have slightly different buff distributions to preserve some thematic continuity.

The change has no bearing to undeads and humans did not get a huge buff versus other player races!!!

I think you misunderstood my reasoning. A nerf to all other races equates to a buff to vampires. A fighter not being able to buff strength properly or a mage not able to choose race to get more int, means that comparatively, vampires get more powerful. Does that make sense?

[Ckrik]

Read the announcement carefully again. All races will get buffs vs NPCs to around the same magnitude. The non-human races just have slightly different buff distributions to preserve some thematic continuity.

The change has no bearing to undeads and humans did not get a huge buff versus other player races!!!

I think you misunderstood my reasoning. A nerf to all other races equates to a buff to vampires. A fighter not being able to buff strength properly or a mage not able to choose race to get more int, means that comparatively, vampires get more powerful. Does that make sense?

I think you're missing that another knob we're going to tweak is your ability to set stat preferences while meditating (as mentioned by Zizuph earlier). If you're a melee player you can still set your stat preferences to pretty much match your old goblin self, it'll be your choice and not ours anymore. Conversely if you want to be a goblin priest now, you can set your preferences to emphasize INT, WIS and DIS.

[Quantum]

I think you're missing that another knob we're going to tweak is your ability to set stat preferences while meditating (as mentioned by Zizuph earlier). If you're a melee player you can still set your stat preferences to pretty much match your old goblin self, it'll be your choice and not ours anymore. Conversely if you want to be a goblin priest now, you can set your preferences to emphasize INT, WIS and DIS.
[/quote]

Being able to set my stat preferences more specifically, like we used to be able to many years ago, is nice. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a huge stats LOSS for goblins, elves etc. Are you going to address this loss?

If you are not, vampires "gain" what we loose.

Would it be an option to set peoples actual stats where they are now, racial plus/minus included, and then turn us all into human base stats, without actually altering our stats in the conversion?

[Ckrik]

Being able to set my stat preferences more specifically, like we used to be able to many years ago, is nice. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a huge stats LOSS for goblins, elves etc. Are you going to address this loss?

You can reset your stats at Palanthas to your preference (i.e. one free stat change). You don't even need to die. If you want to change races, you'll have to go visit Death and Lars, but the stat changer at Palanathas won't take away your exp (i.e. one free race change).

Everyone has the same amount of exp to divide among the stats (at your choice), no one is being disadvantage vis-a-vis Vamps. I really don't see what you're getting at.

[Quantum]

Being able to set my stat preferences more specifically, like we used to be able to many years ago, is nice. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a huge stats LOSS for goblins, elves etc. Are you going to address this loss?

You can reset your stats at Palanthas to your preference (i.e. one free stat change). You don't even need to die. If you want to change races, you'll have to go visit Death and Lars, but the stat changer at Palanathas won't take away your exp (i.e. one free race change).

Everyone has the same amount of exp to divide among the stats, no one is being disadvantage vis-a-vis Vamps. I really don't see what you're getting at.

Lets imagine that I am a goblin with 1000 strength. My racial bonus to strength is 10%. That means my total strength is now 1100 strength. I like that because as a goblin I hold sticks and beat people.

Standing next to me is a human with 1000 strength. He does the same, but does not hit as hard.

In the new system, we are both 1000. So I lost 100 strength. No amount of thaumaturge visits can give that back.

Do you think the goblin is upset that he is loosing 100 strength that he has had for 30 years? No amount of race changes or stat redistributions is going to make him think loosing those 100 strength is a good idea.