New stat levels

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

New stat levels

Post by Cherek » 23 Jan 2023 21:10

Code: Select all

Greetings Genesisians,

Surprise! More changes! And I think you'll like this one.


THE CHANGE
----------

When you wake up after the next Armageddon there will be more stat
levels. Yay!

As you know, today the three highest stats are epic, immortal, and
supreme. After Armageddon, there will five (5!) additional stat 
levels after supreme. This is will be the new progression:

Epic -> Immortal -> Supreme -> Extraordinary -> Incredible ->
Unbelievable -> Miraculous - Impossible.

After Armageddon you will also notice that the <levels> command
includes the new levels.

NOTE: We have NOT changed anything regarding the stats up to
supreme, nor have we changed any numbers of any kind. All we have
done is added more levels after supreme. All players will be exactly
as large/small as they were before the change, you will simply know
more about exactly how large/small you are.

IMPORTANT: The last stat level is named "impossible" because it
should be just that - impossible. We do not expect anyone to reach
this level. It's there to give ALL players, no matter how big you
are, a way to measure your stats. Therefore we set the highest level
to an unreachable level so you can always see if you are very far,
far, halfway, etc, to something. The second highest level, 
"miraculous" will also be _extremely_ hard to reach.

Some of you will probably say "Hah! Impossible? I'll show you". And
sure, go ahead. Who knows, perhaps an ogre with a gazillion imbues
and spells and herbs and whatnot could do it. It really should not
be possible, but you players tend to push the limits for what we
wizards think are possible :) So ,if you DO reach impossible, we would
very much appreciate if you told us so we can congratulate you!
(And decide if we need to adjust it or not, depending on how you
got there).


QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
---------------------

Q: Why are you doing this?

A: It's become clear that the players of Genesis have outgrown the
   stat levels that were created many years ago. Not being able to
   measure your stats and your progress beyond supreme has become 
   both boring and problematic in many ways. For example, if you have 
   several stats beyond supreme, it's very hard to know which stat 
   you are strongest in, and hard to know how to use your learning 
   preferences to balance these stats. The same problem happens
   when you use the thamaturgist as well. And, of course, it's kind 
   of sad to not see your stats grow once you reach this size. Some
   of you tend to count fantas beyond myth, but we hope the additional
   stat levels might be a bit more fun for you. 


Q: Will you be adding new mortal levels too?

A: No. Definitely not. I believe that the current myth level is
   a good final mortal level as it is. Want to hit myth and then
   chill and focus on other aspects of the game? Feel free to,
   nobody will know for sure how big you are, and that's a good 
   thing I think. I do not think it would be beneficial for 
   Genesis to add more mortal levels as it would likely start
   a new (stressful for some) "race" to reach them, and the highest 
   level would feel even more unreachable for newer players.
   
   
Q: But won't the new stat levels also push players to grind more?

A: Sure, but those are personal and only you can see them. I hope
   the new stat levels will make it more fun to grind for those 
   who do want grow big far beyond myth. If you don't want to
   do that, you don't have to. And since nobody else can see
   your stats, I do not think it will create the same "I _have to_
   grind to reach the next level" kind of stress that new mortal
   levels likely would.


Q: Wow, there sure are a lot of new superlatives. Did you consider 
   some other solutions for this?

A: Yes, we figured there were two possible ways to do this. We
   could have "stretched out" the current levels instead, and made
   supreme much much harder to reach. This, however, would have 
   meant that everyone would appear to have become smaller, since
   very few people would even have epic stats all of a sudden. Of
   course the numbers would stay the same, but it would likely not
   feel very good. It would also mean stat progress would appear
   to be much slower, as there would be larger gaps between each
   level. A solution for this could have been to add more stat 
   levels between the current levels, but that would mean coming 
   up with lots of new adjectives for all six stats, which likely
   would have been very confusing for quite some time. Besides, 
   the current levels are so deeply ingrained in our minds anyway,
   so messing with what an "epic" or a "supreme" is, and forcing
   everyone to relearn everything would likely just be annoying
   and frustrating.
   
   Now, it was kind of hard to come up with good superlatives that
   all sound more and more amazing, however, I think we found some
   good words that make sense. Also, this solution does not have any
   real drawbacks except that it becomes superlative-bonanza at the
   highest levels. But, overall, I think it was clearly the best 
   solution.
   
   
Q: But did you really have to add so many new levels? Now I feel
   small.

A: Yes we did. Some players today are already far beyond supreme to 
   begin with, and both ogres and imbuements push player stats up to 
   very high levels. We came to the conlusion that we needed 
   five new levels to accurately represent this. The step between 
   each stat level already grows gradually at high levels, and we 
   wanted to keep a reasonable progression beyond supreme as well. 
   Fewer levels would simply have created too large gaps between the 
   new levels compared to the gaps between the old levels, which would 
   have made it feel like you hit a wall after supreme.
   
   
FINAL WORDS
-----------
   
Okay. I hope I managed to anticipate some of the questions you were
going to ask me, but if I missed some, please post a question on 
the official forums as a reply to this common board post - or 
<mail aob> in game. This project was a joint project between myself
(Cherek) and Ckrik. Hope you like it! If not, see <help rights>. 

Oh yeah, if you notice some bugs, typos, or other issues, please
<mail aob> as well.

And finally, I want to stress this again: We have NOT changed any
numbers whatsoever. No actual stats have changed. This is only a
cosmetic change that lets you measure your stats better beyond
supreme.

Cherek - Keeper of Genesis
Ckrik - Arch of Balance   

Thalric
Rising Hero
Posts: 343
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: New stat levels

Post by Thalric » 23 Jan 2023 22:29

I don't know if I should thank you or think it is silly, but thanks for the work done.

Now we just need a bunch of new levels in the compare command.
I hope you will look into that too, eventually. :)

Targun
Adept
Posts: 126
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 01:31

Re: New stat levels

Post by Targun » 23 Jan 2023 22:33

Cherek wrote:Epic -> Immortal -> Supreme -> Extraordinary -> Incredible ->
Unbelievable -> Miraculous - Impossible.
There, now you're just being mean. We were so close to greatness. My disappointment is...

Image

TaranGoatWalker
Great Adventurer
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Aug 2020 23:23
Location: Somewhere

Re: New stat levels

Post by TaranGoatWalker » 23 Jan 2023 22:57

More stats I'll never reach! :D
Stabby stabby stab stab.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 686
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: New stat levels

Post by Kvator » 24 Jan 2023 11:38

Idea itself is good, but the choice of descriptions seems pretty odd to me (name-wise and order-wise).

Maybe instead of:

Epic -> Immortal -> Supreme -> Extraordinary -> Incredible ->
Unbelievable -> Miraculous - Impossible.

go something like:

Extraordinary -> Incredible -> Epic -> Miraculous -> Legendary ->
Immortal -> Supreme -> Divine

I understand the reasoning on why you want to keep first 3 'untouched' but rly in the long-run becoming 'extraordinary' after months/years of being 'epic/immortal/supreme' seems pretty silly :)

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: New stat levels

Post by Cherek » 24 Jan 2023 14:48

Kvator: Well, we can of course change the order of things, but like I said, I did not want to mess with the original three since they have been there for so long. But I mean, if a large majority of players think it would be good to move things around, we can do that. I do agree that immortal, and supreme probably should belong a bit higher up on the list if we were designing a new game from scratch. But since we aren't, and epic, immortal, and supreme have existed for so long in that order, I figured the safest solution was to just add the new things on top.

Regarding your suggestion for other adjectives. I deliberatly decided NOT to use anything we already use elsewhere. I debated using "heroic", "legendary", "mythical", etc, but figured it was better to stay away from using adjectives that are similar to our mortal levels. We also decided to stay away from words related to god and gods, like god-like, divine, etc. Ckrik thought it felt odd, and I didn't argue, since there are so many other words to choose from :)

About the order of adjectives. Well, ask ten people and get at least five different ideas about in which order they should go. Is "extraordinary" better or worse than "epic"? Is "immortal" better or worse then "supreme"? Is being "incredible" more amazing than being "miraculous"? Well, there is no right or wrong there I think. However, the order we pick, whichever it is, will in time become right for us. For us, epic -> immortal -> supreme feels right, but if you were to ask a non-Genesis person I am not so sure it would be in that order. I'd probably put immortal above supreme for example, if I hadn't become so used to the current order.

Quantum
Adept
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Aug 2019 19:33

Re: New stat levels

Post by Quantum » 25 Jan 2023 00:34

Cherek wrote:
24 Jan 2023 14:48
For us, epic -> immortal -> supreme feels right, but if you were to ask a non-Genesis person I am not so sure it would be in that order. I'd probably put immortal above supreme for example, if I hadn't become so used to the current order.
I posted in another thread but probably should have done it here. I agree with the sentiment that it would be a good idea to re-order the highest stat levels. Only the ones from epic and above. As long as you stick to those, I think you can freely rearrange the words to a more sound progression. I assume that only part of the population have reached all-immortal stats and therefore few people would truly be affected by changing the order.

Would it be possible to tell us the % of affected players or is that giving out too much information?

Budwise
Veteran
Posts: 207
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 10:17

Re: New stat levels

Post by Budwise » 25 Jan 2023 10:39

I think "special snowflake", "ludicrous" and "Bazinga!" should be included.
Or do I? I don't see what all the hoo-hah is about. Just happy to get new levels.

Also Cherek trained as a wizard at Frogwarts. You were warned, mortals- ;-)

Budwise
Veteran
Posts: 207
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 10:17

Re: New stat levels

Post by Budwise » 01 Feb 2023 14:55

Nice to be able to see stats again instead of just "supreme". Thanks much.

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