Crowd control

[TaranGoatWalker]

If guilds who previously had PvP abilities then lose them, will they be CAID compensated?
Looking (too my knowledge) at MM, AoD, Knights, and the DAs

I have CC?
Kool

[Draugor]

If guilds who previously had PvP abilities then lose them, will they be CAID compensated?
Looking (too my knowledge) at MM, AoD, Knights, and the DAs

I have CC?
Kool

You a monk? Plexus is a CC, it's not an amazing one and it's only combat and not movement CC, but still a CC

[Greneth]

Honestly I agree with a majority of what Nils said, though as Alpha Strike/Sneak/Hide is his bias... scry is mine. And he touched on it a bit but I would like to emphasize it. Because nothing ruined the last two years of my gameplay before I became a wizard like a few people absolutely filling my entire screen with scries. Spamming it the second I woke up before my items had even loaded. Not even hunting me but just to be an ass by idling with a trigger to spam me. It wasnt fun and its not something I would want to happen to other players because some people take things too far in this game.

So scries should be able to be resisted MUCH easier if you're going to remove the CD on them and a MUCH higher component cost. Knowledge of someones location is way more important than a Fireball spell yet we treat it as a cantrip for anyone to use willy nilly.

[nils]

Because nothing ruined the last two years of my gameplay before I became a wizard like a few people absolutely filling my entire screen with scries. Spamming it the second I woke up before my items had even loaded. Not even hunting me but just to be an ass by idling with a trigger to spam me. It wasnt fun and its not something I would want to happen to other players because some people take things too far in this game.

Classic harassment, this. Not condoned, at all, and should certainly be dealt with by AoP. Though, removing a vital tool in PvP, on a global scale, because of one individual's abuse of it is not how things should get done. Anywhere. If this very real problem is as prevalent as some make it out to be I'd propose logging the spell rather than making pvp another tad bit harder.

[Rache]

Nils's post is 100% spot on and raises very valid points both for and against the current state of things, if the switches were instantly flipped.

PVP should be enabled, as should PVP-enhancing abilities. Checks and balances, of course, for all abilities but Genesis is a PVP-based game. The Admin has been encouraging us to "handle it yourselves" when disagreements arise. What needs to be looked at is the death penalty for PVP -- it should sting, but not a several-month-long penalty as it is now.

[Draugor]

So scries should be able to be resisted MUCH easier if you're going to remove the CD on them and a MUCH higher component cost. Knowledge of someones location is way more important than a Fireball spell yet we treat it as a cantrip for anyone to use willy nilly.

Log scries and ban spammers from using it for 6 months if they spam it all day

[TaranGoatWalker]

If guilds who previously had PvP abilities then lose them, will they be CAID compensated?
Looking (too my knowledge) at MM, AoD, Knights, and the DAs

I have CC?
Kool

You a monk? Plexus is a CC, it's not an amazing one and it's only combat and not movement CC, but still a CC

I'm a DA.

[Draugor]

I have CC?
Kool

You a monk? Plexus is a CC, it's not an amazing one and it's only combat and not movement CC, but still a CC

I'm a DA.

Aaah, prolly refering to how dragonfear used to work before it was made barely useable, it used to be a complete paralytic unless you had tons of Dis, dragontraps at Calia RA killed a ton of people as I recall, some people assume it's still a paralyze, not even sure if it can stun at all now

[kelrhys]

Research from *gameanalytics.com shows that only 1% of the player population
are primary Killer types, so it is good that the goal is not to cater to
that at the expense of the 99%.

For those who enjoy sparring but not necessarily killing other players, the
current system works fine. Re-enabling any form of root/snare/block will
be a benefit for those who are looking for extra challenge and/or to defend
their guild or mete out justice, but it will also help the 1% who live to
ruin someone else's day who didn't have it coming.

If it is considered worth the effort to evaluate and modify 10+ different
areas to enable this, and it leads to a worse game experience for the 99%,
that's a big negative for the game overall.

As a mitigation for this risk, I like Zizuph's proposal to offer counter/escape
abilities with the conditions Nils mentions, but for ALL occupational guilds
that do not currently have a root/snare/block. Maybe that was what was meant
by guilds that are avoidant of PvP conflict, but I wasn't sure. This would
then make items which root a potential source of double-dipping so they
should be taken into consideration.

Thalric brings up an interesting point about darkness. It is a powerful
tool for a Killer, especially against an unprepared Socializer, Achiever,
and Explorer type. However, it's significantly easier to be prepared to
overcome this with light than it is to produce deep darkness. When combined
with an escape ability, it seems acceptable.

Killers will always find a reason to kill; Socializers, Achievers, and
Explorers are unlikely to match their drive to avenge their losses. Only
other killers pose a challenge. Too bad that is not what some of them are
looking for.

Kelrhys

* https://gameanalytics.com/blog/understa ... -taxonomy/

[Drazson]

First off, nice to see more and more things touched upon!


Not having had much of a pvp career, I'm trying to think how we are supposed to want things to develop in a pvp scenario. Of course a chunk of what I'm thinking might be unrealistic, but hey, it's not that people kill eachother every day so


I understand jumping someone as a stealth character as a very welcome feature.

Invisibility that I have personally used (as a spell) is kind of trash with this. If you start doing something meaningful like casting you either break it instantly or at least show to the room that something's going on, at least from what I remember it. Having the ability to basically backstab with a spell from invis might be a bit unfair though, so that's probably fair enough.

<backstab> or some invisibility strike that I'm not aware of seems to be the only way to open and land something. You can drop some fatigue poison, deal a lot of initial damage and start hunting them around if they don't feel like fighting from that bad starting point.


However, a very big portion of the players can't do that at all.

What should we expect then? Probably some nice, heated team rumbles or honest to god 1v1s, some situation in which maybe for RP reasons people will not simply spam movement to get away from. I dislike block as a concept, but that's also a solution I guess, if the enemy is not beheld by pride or guild representation in any way.

I am not sure that we have meaningful team role mechanics for such a situation, which makes some people like tanks a bit stupid or others like the poor assassin from earlier who is manually targetted with an attack more vulnerable than could be if reasonably - with common sense - strategized.
Maybe the team mechanics need some extension, which be also cool for potential complicated pve boss battles. Maybe a number of "front slots", potentially different depending on the area (narrow corridors, 1 front, open field 3 fronts etc). Fronts could take attacks, maybe 2nd row could only use some special abilities like pounce or sneak but others could be polearm/bow-based. Middle row can't be touched, you can place healers there.
Of course what I said does not fit with Genesis as it is now, but it's just a vague concept of what kind of things could make the whole tanking/backline/healers thing make more sense to me.

Paralyzes sound a bit too penalizing to balance around, and the stat differences that exist out there make them a bit binary in their effect. If a couple of 250s get a baby myth into a paralyze it might be just a wrap. You can't meaningfully balance the duration of the paralysis around such a scenario while keeping it useful in the context of a more even champ v champ battle. I liked the slow effect that was mentioned, I think it is a more flexible and balance-able alternative, making a subsequent hunt part of the contest if you get to jump someone.

Tracking.. ah. It's kind of hard to tell. I think it's ok to be able to trigger your way to where your pray is, honestly. You're not as quick as they are in making those steps by a long shot, so they can reasonably escape. But you will also go far and might catch their boat. People are able to mess with their own footprint or simply be a warlock to avoid leaving those behind. I understand why it might seem weird that someone can homing-missile you, but I wouldn't expect to escape an Elven Archer with all the tracking skill in the world if I was on the run by simply pressing on the numpad furiously.


More of a "thoughts thrown around" rather than full addressing, but hey, nice topic.