Two types of Characters.

[Laurel]

Bury bones IS fun! SS quest IS fun! Blizzard's quest WAS fun (especially when done correctly ... until Navare "fixed" it)! The new Terel quests ARE fun (if the black katana one has been improved syntax-wise) - caravan, black katana, bandits, Labal ...

Most funny quests however were always the ones connected with deepie ... how many deaths they claimed in the ancient times ("acid prot? blasphemy! my chest is my shield!")... and how many ppl went against RP to complete them (RDA with Neidars, knights with BDA and/or MMs, etc.) ... yummy!

[Alorrana]

For you Yes..

For me..its was extremely hard quests that took me ages to solve. Seriously it took me 12 years to grow to legend.. But good that people like quests, im not saying remove all quest. Indeed keep the quest, make even more... People do like to them, But then you have the rest, that dosnt like questing.. that finds it hard, and simply not getting them done..? When I grind and RP its a game to me.. When I quest its like reading a book i dont want to.. Im sorry If upsets any people. Not my intend. But It upsets me that people wanting to play simply cant or wount because of quests.

Basic all other games you can brute your way up, quests are there to solve if you want, but its nothing you NEED to do.. Thats what i want for genesis.

[Kitriana]

Need to throw my two cents in...

I've probably done all quests in the game with the exception of 7-9... (not including the few that were closed before this incarnation). My character is at Titan and my brute is not amazing... or at least I don't believe it to be so. Maybe others will think differently. And I HATE Grinding! It is the most boring activity on the planet for me. I just want to zone out. I'm very happy to quest and RP.... and explore. I WISH I could quest up to myth.. that would be a DREAM for me... or maybe general xp my way up?

I agree a lot of quests need help and are buggy and have issues.. but I belive this can be resolved. Those things frustrate me at times too.. but overall.. I really enjoy the process.

I understand you hate questing Aloronna...probably about as much as I hate grinding.. (quite honestly.. I think less.. but we won't argue about degrees of hate)... but what your suggesting... I agree with Cherek... it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

[Alorrana]

I may not be the best one to suggest anything at all, Cherek the saint is super good to point that out nomatter what i say on this board..

But what im suggesting, Is a way for both kinds to grow, Those who wants to quest, or those who dosnt, I dont MAKE and thing here. Im suggesting how I personally things could improve and the game gain players. Im not suggesting to remove quests, I encurrage wizards to make more quests. But im saying please RESPECT the fact that there are alot of us that dosnt like quests..

And my suggestions are only suggestions. remember this. If you have any please share The main thing is FOR QUESTS TO BE OPTIONAL... Okay..

I know my suggestions suck, everything i write in here apparently sucks.. or have to be taken totally appart when knowing Im not a wizard or anything.
What can one do besides roll my eyes.. But I say again FOR QUESTS TO BE OPTIONAL.. That my suggestion dosnt make sense to you, I couldnt care less about. It was a frigging suggestion.. nothing els. When did i say everyone didnt like quests..? I say some dont like em.. Not all. Huge difference I respect them who likes em. Im not saying Remove all quests. Just saying give us an option.. thats all.

[Greneth]

Genesis and its players confuse me on so many levels sometimes its just unreal. This game is completely backwards from any other RPG I have ever seen. Its unique which is a cool feature but its also quite annoying and forceful. Most RPG's have a storyline you can follow which will allow you to complete the endgame but if you wish to perfect your character you can grind your way further to make it easier at the endgame or even grind the entire way there.

Genesis is do both or spend alot of time getting to endgame. Diablo 2, follow the Acts and you can kill Baal with a team. Do lots of Baal runs and you can reach level 99. Fallout, follow the main story line and you can complete the end just fine or find special areas like the Deathclaw camp and get a few more levels for the special perks. WoW, do quests to get high in levels or go through instances grinding your way up. I can keep going...Morrowind Series, Gothic Series, Neverwinter Nights... Most MUD's dont even share anything in common with Genesis when it comes to questing. They are all optional or used for RP sessions and or special items/points.

Just because something has been there for ages does not mean everyone just has to accept it because thats the way its always been. There is a reason those games do it that way, because it works and it caters to everyone. So if you want to quest your way up you should have that option or if you want to grind thats one way of doing it too.

And the problem with just upping quests and leaving things as they are now is Quests are not that hard, perhaps for some because of the syntax frustration. But with the Hyperlinks floating around the Dragonlance takes 20 min tops to do, Gorboths own Torque maybe 30. See the problem? And even if those quests were changed someone would just write out another Doc for them and if you make them like the Cadu maze people who didn't like quests before are sure as shit going to hate them now no matter what the reward is.

[Cherek]

Alorrana: Well I am sorry, I dont think your idea was a good one. When I suggest things, or when anyone does, there are usually a bunch of people who dont like it. I thought you wanted feedback on your idea.

I think it is confusing having to chose different types of characters when you start the game. I think it is illogical to have a cap for fighters and even more illogical to have a cap on title only. I do not understand why the fighters should be capped and penalized for not liking quests.

I offered my suggestion to remove brutality. Upgrade rewards for all quests, make it possible to grow either by quests, by killing things, and by doing general things (add better XP rewards for PvP, Events, etc, and adjust Xp rewards for herbing and crafting). Of course you can chose a combination of all too. Which is the most likely character.

Thats what I think could work. Immediately Greneth doesnt like that idea, but thats fine, thats the whole poiont of discussing something.

Greneth: So upping the rewards wont work because there are quest docs and quests arent that hard with them so people will grow to quickly by "cheating"? Alorrana doesnt agree on that I think. Lots of people complain quests are too hard, illogical and buggy even with docs, and thats why they should not be forced. You are saying they arent hard, so then whats the problem with the current system? If you can run through the major quests in a few hours like you say, why not just keep everything as it is?

You suggested adding other types of rewards for quests. Wont people just use quest docs to get those rewards then? The problem of having quest docs will always be there. There isnt really a solution to that no matter what types of rewards quest have. So you can quest-doc your way through alot of quests to grow, so what? You can grind-script to grow as well. The only way imho to have people "not cheat" is to provide quests that are logical enough so you wont even start searching for quest docs and actually think its FUN without. Same with grinding, if we can make it more FUN people maybe rather fun-grind than script-grind.

Upping rewards for quests and removing brutality will make grinders not have to quest, and it will make questers not have to grind (so much). Is it better than the current system? I dont know.

[Greneth]

Cherek

You must have had extremely high brute since you were a GA then. Just doing big quests doesn't work it takes a lot of collective quests crazy enough its more of the smaller to medium size ones that are buggy and the big ones damn near spot on. The problem with the current system is that you "Have" to quest. I think thats wrong, if I don't want to follow some stupid quest about a gnome and his retarded sign just so I can get bigger quicker I shouldnt have to. Yet this game tells me that if I want that much more of an edge on my brute to figure it out and move on to the next one. I fail to see just what the problem with splitting the two is? If you like to quest... you can quest, if you like to grind... grind if you like to do both.. then do both, but dont force it.

My suggestion was 1 time use items or customizations this way im not giving someone who has extremely violent brute Qexp and a Fant for doing a quest that takes him 20 min. Its going to get abused, sure. But items that are non tradeable between characters and for that character only and will be gone once used seems a bit better to me. And alot more exciting knowing I can add on to my description or have a title no one else has, perhaps a permanent skin for my weapon that stays with me doesnt change the weapon just the way it looks, pets, access to new craft guilds that were talked about on the other thread. Perhaps its just me but those rewards are more appealing and I would be much more excited about getting those quest points. Grinders can be happy knowing they never have to touch a quest again, questers can quest their life away and collect points and those in the middle can enjoy the benefits of both worlds. Nothing forced yet the option is available.

[Rhaegar]

I love the idea of quests providing guild unlocks and the like (more guild entrance quests would be fun).
Not sure if I like the idea of one use items. Better make it some titles, emotes or trinkets that stay with you and provide you with more means to roleplay or have fun.

[Makfly]

So, questing sucks...And grinding sucks. I guess that must mean that progress in Genesis sucks.

So let's just make it automatic. Yes, automatically.
Let it take 365 real life days for your stats to reach, say...Hero level. Extrapolate to Myth level and it'll take real life years.*
Every real life day where you are logged in for atleast half an hour non-idle time, your stats grow automatically. That means you can devote yourself to RP, herbing, exploring, or whatever you please.

If you want to quest, the reward for questing is bonus Xp that goes into your INT, WIS, DIS pile. So you can cut down on the number of days, it takes you to reach max stat in that category.
If you grind mobs, you get bonus XP that goes towards advancing your STR, CON, DEX.

You can only reduce your growth time by, let's say 25%. So you can grind/quest to a point, where it'll no longer benefit your growth-rate. Then you're "free" to explore some PvP or whatever else the game have to offer.

Implement a stat-cap, at the point of the biggest player in the game right now, and calculate how long you want it to take to reach that level automatically, and you're good to go.

That way, people will be free to do other things, without having to worry about keeping up on the stats race, without having to quest if they don't want to, and without having to do anything besides what they prefer - And they know that they will still reach max level eventually.

Instead of argueing back and forth in a either/or arguement, why not just get rid of both options and try something creative? It's not like there is much to risk anyway.
Surely, it's worked very well for EVE, as they carved out their niche?

*Don't make it linear, make it so it's real fast to Expert, then slows down little by little.

[Rhaegar]

But in EVE your skills kept increasing even if you weren't logged in...