Genesis Forums

Alright, let's see if I got this thing right:


1. Phantom : This guy enters and killsteal from Morrison, and slain by : Morrison.

2. Habiki : Habiki enters and "steals" the herbs from Morrison, and slain by: Morrison.

3. Zar : Morrison assaults Zar in Krynn (natural enemies), and slain by: Morrison.

4. Vallimar : Found at Holm (some considers this as a "pvp-zone", still, primary rules of Genesis
overrules the local ones at Holm), and slain by: Morrison and Ilrahil.

5. Phantom : This guy enters and killsteal from Morrison and Ilrahil, and slain by : Morrison and
Ilrahil.

x. Some more sporadic assaults on other players, noone died.


My take on it:

1. Looks like a legal kill to me. Enter and killing someone's stuff could ultimately end
with a dirtnap. I guess the script is the killer here. (therefore, write them better).

2. Ok, I find this kill dubious. Habiki should be warned, poked, perhaps scared away or
attacked (but not killed) first before anything else. Sounds like a bot, but still, herbing
is quite innocent, unless you are in some more dangerous parts of the game where
combatants have mutually agreed upon that members doing such may be slain at
any time regardless of size and activity.

3. Hmm...technically a legal kill, but perhaps in conjunction with the other recent kills
a tad over the top?

4. Assaulting and killing players on the Holm isn't exactly a new thing in Genesis.
Could be understandable, though not really my cup of tea.

5. Scripter again doing the exact same mistake, now against a stronger force? What
about writing a better script/being at the puter, perhaps have a few ABORTbuttons
easily avaiable? *scratch head*

x. I agree that perhaps these assaults were abit excessive, after sending a steady
supply to Lars-


- It appears to me that several of the kills was legal ones, but perhaps a tad excessive
and unecessary. Phantom would regardless have a serious case here though, as if
this is a result of a script rather than intention, he probably would have met his
end sooner or later anyway. Write a better script or some OSHIT-triggers?

Kas wrote:I'm for mutually agreed-upon "warzones" and ROE's made by players though.

someone from a guild that was first to denounce rules of Holm ("roe made by players", or?) ain't rly in a position to call for another of such zones/ROE's ... or?

edited for Kas

Laurel wrote:

Kas wrote:I'm for mutually agreed-upon "warzones" and ROE's made by players though.

someone from a guild that was first to denounce rules of Holm ("agreed-upon warzone", or) ain't rly in a position to call for another of such zones ... or?

_Mutually_ agreed upon, Laurel.

I don't like the idea of PvP zones. That would be an unnecessary emulation of WoW style gaming which I do not think fits Genesis. I'm all for PvP, yet- within reasonabe limits.

'My char had a bad day' is a perfectly reasonable excuse for a pkill- for certain guilds. I believe crossing the line here was killing the same player twice on the same day- which was always considered a harassment, unless that player gave a reason for the second time- and that the attacks were in no way motivated by RP reasons, but- from what I've heard- an argument between players involved and administration.

Also, aside from killing people who could have indeed given a reason, there was a number of attacks on other players, who were in no way involed.

All in all. I've got kind of mixed feelings. Genesis sometimes kills you in really stupid ways, and these should be ridden off by wizards ASAP as they are a huge deterrent. I remember, I once left my char next to the warden in Minas Morgul, so noone attacks him, as I had to open my door for a friend waiting outside. When I returned I found my char dead, because Jadestone poison tried to wimp me in the direction warden was guarding and he attacked me.

Now, I can totally understand how such deaths bring a feeling of someones time not being treated respectfully. Death from an other player- perfectly fine. Death while trying really hard npc- perfectly fine. Death from going north or something what I mentioned above- this is just wrong.

So, probably Gorboth had a tough call here. I like Ilrahil, even though I not always agree with him and I do believe he is a valuable asset to the game. A really dedicated player. On one hand, they got a little too far. On the other hand, if they tried, they could probably justify their actions and avoid the punishment as from what I have read people who died from their blades were absolutely fine targets from Pkill. Although, it seems like neither Ilrahil nor Morrison wanted to handle it this way and just wanted to show they can take a revange not on players, but the admins, which sort of was an ultimatum that doesn't give one many choices.

Now Targun, please tell me why would you even consider idling right next to the Morgul Warden safe? Especially knowing that you were under the effects of some poisons that may make you do weird stuff.
Such death can be considered stupid, but I think that everythink there worked as intended, as it should. I'm really against any "safe spots" whatsoever, if you want to idle, either get back to your guild or take into account the risk of possible attack while you're inattentive.

If an npc doesn't attack you on sight, it shouldn't attack you after e.g. 3 minutes. If you expect peopel to not let in their friends, this is the very kind of thinking which brought Genesis from 100 players online, when 3% of society had access to the internet, to 20 online when 80% of society has an access to the internet.

See the flaw yet? If you notice nothing wrong is happening to your char while at computer, you should be able to leave it for a while, to attend your matters- pick up the phone, get the pot off fire etc, and shouldn't be killed in such ways, because it takes so much time to gain lvl in this game and death is so costly. Kind of- whatever you say, the argument on your side is lost, as purely the way of thikning you present, didn't bring any players to Genesis, while made many leave.

The events of the last few days are the best example of how it works. Awkard deaths lead to frustrations, which lead to consequences that are not favourable by anyone. Players involved, administration, the game. Death is a normal aspect of the game, but should be treated carefully.

Following you logic- why would you ever stand next to a non hostile dragon. Why would you ever stand next to the dragonarmy officer, why would you ever stand next to the dwaf- we all know how short tempered they are, why would you ever stand... anywhere. Game has to be reasonable and treat player's time with respect. When it doesn't players leave. Personally, I'm quite suprised you don't udenrstand it.

Genesis is not your standard MUD/MMO where you can just pull up the AFK flag out of your pocket and be done with it. Everyone wants wizards to make stuff that discourages or downright disables robot behaviour via scripting and want punishment for idlers. Now you want to get more features that would allow you to safely idle? I'm getting confused...

My post merely stated that if you want to idle then do so in a place that's really safe, where there are no NPCs, no or very limited player traffic etc. You thought that idling by the Warden is safe, hopefully you've learned your lesson and won't be idling there next time. If you have to leave at a moment's notice due to unexpected events then tough luck. I've been playing action-packed multiplayer online games for years and occassionally losing/dying/whatever because of such sudden afking has never been a factor in me leaving the game or not, Genesis included. I can't even count how many times my chars have died because of inattention, me having to leave the keyboard, impatience and so on. The game can't cater to everybody at the same time, that's just not possible.

Edit: And on your argument about NPC not attacking you after some time. What if I coded an area with NPCs in their homes that would get annoyed if someone they don't know overstayed their visit? There are places like that in Gen already, not everything should either attack you on sight or not at all, it's not a binary system and I think it's better that way.

If the kills were as described as above, then I don't see why they needed to be punished especially if the only people that died were ones that tried to take their kills and or herbs.

BDA killing any knights or neidar anywhere shouldn't be frowned upon.

I also don't think Ilrahil should be banned from the forums.

-B

Targun, as far as I remember the Warden will warn you not to go north from that location, and if you ever do it again, he will attack you.
So, unless the code changed, everything worked as intended, and there is nothing to complain about.

Genesis surely have/had stupid death-traps, but what you are describing is not one of them.

It seems that there are lots of sentiments about judging whether the legality of the kills justified the punishments that the pkillars received.

bromen wrote:BDA killing any knights or neidar anywhere shouldn't be frowned upon.

Kas wrote:It appears to me that several of the kills was legal ones, but perhaps a tad excessive
and unecessary.

Genesis is not a free p-kill game. A myth has the capability of killing a wanderer, no matter the situation. That same myth can use any number of justifications for their kill - whether it's because they're in an opposing guild, ignored them when they spoke to them, had a bad day, stole some herbs, or any number of reasons. The question - Is killing the wanderer regardless of the legality the right thing to do? In times past, people would first role-play the scenario. For example, a Morgul Mage might threaten someone to leave, make them do something like groveling, or voluntarily eating hemlock rather than outright casting a single spell. This method gives each party a satisfying and exciting encounter between players that helps to build up the community and provides a log or memory for posterity. It is the spirit of Genesis.

On the other hand, some people just like to p-kill. They then like to justify it with some reasons afterwards. These types of actions are not unlike negative attacks on this forum that are very much unwelcome. They cause people to leave the game in anger and disgust. Actions which hurt or destroy our community will be met with action by the AoP.

Which brings me to the topic of the P-Kill spree. Taken alone, each of the kills would probably not have warranted any action. However, five in four days in extremely dubious circumstances led to action by AoP. Basically, what it comes down to is not the "legality" of each kill. It's about killing the spirit of the game through one or two people's individual actions.