Genesis Forums

Gruff: I am gonna "do an Amberlee" here and be surprised about a client feature. Maps? Really? I never used maps in cMud. Is it something people use? For me personally making maps work on a customized genesis client would be like the last thing on my list.

Autoconnect to Genesis, a bunch of colors and predefinied aliases (and maybe some triggers?) would be really nice. Anything else is bonus imho. You're little setup with things you're wearing etc really neat I think and would be a great improvement from the free clients we are currently offering, which are FMud and Sandaolphon's Genesis client. FMud can be played in a web browser which is good, and the official client has really nice potential but currently both options are pretty "clean" and lacking features.

A question though,
When I checked it out some time ago it seemed like you need to import some type of settings file or something manually. Is there a way to make this automated somehow? So you download and install the client, and its already set up to connect to Genesis and all settings and stuff are already there?

Cherek wrote:Gruff: I am gonna "do an Amberlee" here and be surprised about a client feature. Maps? Really? I never used maps in cMud. Is it something people use? For me personally making maps work on a customized genesis client would be like the last thing on my list.

I'll try to give a fancy answer and go all psychologists on you now...

Those maps that we are all using, they are from the mapping feature in zMud/cMud (at least I'm pretty sure that is the case?), so mapping is important for everyone.
After reading the thread about clients, it seemed that maps is an important feature, at least for people who have/use them. Also, the fact that, as a new player, when you ask a questions about just about anything, people tend to give you the links to the maps on crossbearer also hints that maps (as a general function, just having them avaliable somewhere) is very important.

Now, in a first step, maps could be made available in a really simple way, you could just have a button that opens a menu with links to the jepgs of the maps, with basically no interactivity to it. But if you've ever started using maps regularly (like in cMud, with speedwalks and everything), you will want this feature in whatever client you use.

In order to customize something, you need knowledge (or, perhaps, people with a lot of knowledge about whatever the customization is aimed at.) We'll have an easier time making people switch from TheClientTheyAreUsing to Mudlet if mudlet offers the features they need. For each person that switches to Mudlet, you would get more input into what is needed for customization specific for genesis. I think maps is one of the few make or break variables for selecting client for a lot of people.

Autoconnect to Genesis, a bunch of colors and predefinied aliases (and maybe some triggers?) would be really nice. Anything else is bonus imho. You're little setup with things you're wearing etc really neat I think and would be a great improvement from the free clients we are currently offering, which are FMud and Sandaolphon's Genesis client. FMud can be played in a web browser which is good, and the official client has really nice potential but currently both options are pretty "clean" and lacking features.

Thanks for the compliment!

So yeah... There are super generic things that everyone should have. These would be things like the ones I've added already, and probably lots of other stuff that I haven't thought about yet

• Which equipment you are using (and, in the near future, a little symbol representing its its condition next to the name!)
  Tracking loot
  Tracking kills
  Highlights of current targets, your health, enemy health, and sofort
  Maps
  Having the statuses from examining questorbs/hints avaliable everywhere
  Etcetera

Then you'd have more specific things, like stuff for guilds, clubs and race specific things, with its individual messages, highlights, triggers, whatnot

A question though,
When I checked it out some time ago it seemed like you need to import some type of settings file or something manually. Is there a way to make this automated somehow? So you download and install the client, and its already set up to connect to Genesis and all settings and stuff are already there?

Not sure about that, but at absolute most it would take two downloads, one of the client and one of a folder called Genesis with connection details, triggers, scripts, the works. Then all of that is imported with one click, so that wouldn't be much of a problem.

Basically direction "WoW with full set of mods and addons on top", but this is a mud ...?

Laurel wrote:Basically direction "WoW with full set of mods and addons on top", but this is a mud ...?

The good thing about free will is that you can obviously stay in telnet: genesismud.org 3011 with your limit of 30 aliases and enjoy the game that way if you feel that that is more of your thing.
You can even run around with brief mode off and not running gagmiss if your idea of a good gaming experience is being flooded with unformatted text. Or you can just stay in sparkle and talk to people. It's completely up to you.

Why I started doing this for myself is that I've had some great experience with playing genesis, and know that I like the game, but that endless walls of text aren't the way that I will enjoy it the most. Back in the day, when I did play with telenet, walls of texts was all there was, and I loved it.
But lo and behold, some 19 years later, it's actually possible to customize the experience so that you will enjoy it more.

If I had the possibility to talk to myself 19 years ago, and he found out that I didn't take advantage of living in the future, he would shake his head in disbelief.

I am 99.999% sure that if MUDs are going to survive they need to become more user friendly, and that doesnt mean remove everything that makes MUDs good.

Gruff: About maps, I didnt mean I dont use maps, I meant I never used maps other than online maps. Without them I would probably not have gotten far... so yeah I agree that maps are very important, but I dont personally feel having them in the client is make or break it for me. I am perfectly fine with website maps, but I guess thats perhaps because that is how I learned the game, so I would probably not value in-client maps that much. But sure, it would of course me a nice feature, but it has to work too. I have tried the automapper in zMud/cMud a few times but never figured out how to set it up... so if we cant provide a fully functional automapper I think we're better off with the button link to a web map.

Cherek wrote:I am 99.999% sure that if MUDs are going to survive they need to become more user friendly, and that doesnt mean remove everything that makes MUDs good.

I completely agree with you on this. It's kind of sad, in a way, that there are a huge number of muds out there, many with great and varied content that can entertain you for years, yet hardly anyone plays them. I think that a client customized to a mud could make a huge difference in the ability to attract players.

I mean, seriously, the difference between the gaming industry today and what it was 20 years ago is so big its almost hard to grasp. Back then, when I made Gruff the first time, I was like "fuck yeah, I'm a fucking goblin in a huge world and I can interact with other players and basically do whatever I want." There really was nothing to offered anything like that back then.

This will obviously not appeal to players in the same way today, but it had a huge appeal then. It didn't matter that I played through telnet and had to learn everything the hard way, I still loved it. Even if the whole goblin in a huge world would appeal to someone, I'd still say that people would pick a game that has some redeeming UI-qualities, the whole telnet part of mudding doesnt cut it (if you want to attract players and not stick with a dwindling playerbase.)

I think genesis has taken huge steps in the right directions, like the tutorial area and the newbie help line, questorbs and tons of other stuff. The client with which we experience the game can also be tons better.

Gruff: About maps, I didnt mean I dont use maps, I meant I never used maps other than online maps. Without them I would probably not have gotten far... so yeah I agree that maps are very important, but I dont personally feel having them in the client is make or break it for me. I am perfectly fine with website maps, but I guess thats perhaps because that is how I learned the game, so I would probably not value in-client maps that much. But sure, it would of course me a nice feature, but it has to work too. I have tried the automapper in zMud/cMud a few times but never figured out how to set it up... so if we cant provide a fully functional automapper I think we're better off with the button link to a web map.

Yeah, I understand that everyone uses maps, I just wanted to press the importance of them.
I'll have a look at just adding maps into the client like static pictures and see how that turns out.

Gruff: Yup, I definitely agree about the client. I think part of the success of Batmud is that they have a customized client with nice user friendly appeal (compared to other muds that is). There's more to it than that fo course, but I think the things you have done so far is a great step.

I wonder if we can get listed at the start of Mudlet? Try clicking on for instance "God Wars". It then automatically downloads "Game UI". Wonder if it can autodownload settings and stuff too...

Getting listed on their front page is probably a useful idea too. This seems to be the only serious mud client that is currently being developed.

Never used or fealt the need for text editor in my client. As far as maps go, I think that making your own maps (preferrably with pen and paper) is the way to go for new players (old ones can use the online maps to refresh their memory from time to time). You not only learn a lot by making your own maps, you also avoid the trap of thinking that online maps have everything in them (when they clearly do not have quite a lot of interesting places) and only checking places marked with "?" as having potential for hidden content.

Interesting how this thread reveals stuff about how we play. I'd never do pen and papers maps except if it was my only option. On the other hands I think an editor that can send large portions of text is vital, and I thought everyone used it, which clearly isnt the case.

Zhar wrote:Never used or fealt the need for text editor in my client. As far as maps go, I think that making your own maps (preferrably with pen and paper) is the way to go for new players (old ones can use the online maps to refresh their memory from time to time). You not only learn a lot by making your own maps, you also avoid the trap of thinking that online maps have everything in them (when they clearly do not have quite a lot of interesting places) and only checking places marked with "?" as having potential for hidden content.

Yeah, while I agree that there was something special about those old school pen and paper maps that we had to use, I can't imagine this being an option for most people today.

I mean, do you really think that for a new player, i.e. one that doesnt have any experience of muds, really is going to check out a game like this, that has such a steep learning curve as it is, and go "I think I'll start drawing maps while I'm trying to understand the game"? I really can't see that happening.

As for players with experiences from other muds, I assume they will want maps, I just don't think they'd be inclined to run and get a pen and paper to make written physical map, especially when the exact same consequences (having a map) really can be provided through other means (online, automatic interactive maps in the client, etcetera).

I think, honestly, without the map provided by the game in the tutorial, I wouldn't have bothered playing through it when I made my return here a couple of weeks ago. When I don't have to figure out where I am and how to get around, I can focus my attention on other things, like searching through areas, solving quests, enjoying the game in general.

Anyhow. I really appreciate your input Zhar. Anything that you would say should be added to a client if it was tailored for Genesis?