Genesis Forums

I think the part you quoted includes the phrase "as I understand it". I am entitled to my understanding, I guess? I guses understanding also acts is information for me if you wanna look at it that way.

Thanks for your follow-up, it's a warming reaction.

I normally wouldn't post on a thread like this, but this may bring a bit of transparency on areas that seem to often confuse players.

Drazson wrote: I am not sure what changes have to do with anything. I had in mind rumours like

X wizard and Y player are real life brothers which is why Y always gets off the hook.
X wizard was kicked in the past for cheating and now allowed back
X player has been using this bug to get free sup guru defence
X guild knew about Y bug from wizard who misimplemented intentionally and they all abused it

1) The AOP team deals with player issues. X wizard does not get to hear about the deliberations about Y unless they are on the AOP team.
If X wizard is on the AOP team and has some relationship with Y player, they are recused from all deliberations involving X player.
If X wizard is Mirandus, another Arch will take his role in the investigation. If X wizard is Cherek, same thing.
These are the processes in place to ensure the things in your first example can not happen.

2) Unlike players, wizards who are caught cheating don't get second chances, without there being some exceptional reason.
I'm not aware of any wizards who have been given a second chance after cheating. On top of that, being a wizard involves working in a panopticon - everything we do is logged and tracked, and admin will dig deep if anything looks remotely off.

3) Bugs do get sometimes get by. If you catch a whiff of something like this, report it, and we'll be happy to dig into it. That being said, sup guru X is not gamebreaking for any skill, and the things may provide significant benefit are heavily watched. My favorite mistake of mine so far was where Mage guilds had a boost to damage based on their miss chance, rather than their hit chance. They had about 12 hours of really good spells (and some magic using NPCs were quite deadly during that time).

4) Intentional misimplementation - that would get a wizard deleted very quickly. When X guild uses it, its more likely
to get caught, and anyone who takes advantage of such bugs may also be held accountable. Players don't typically see any of the evidence of what happened though, and just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean the wizard was trying to do it on purpose.

Guilds draw from a shared library now for every ability, so it is hard to intentionally set up a guild ability incorrectly.

Drazson wrote: You are correct, it's not a democracy. I am - even if vaguely - indicating how much the current structure obviously sucks for everybody. Does, in your opinion, work well?

There are quite a number of checks and balances in place, particularly in avoiding conflicts of interest. However, none of this seems to be
shared widely, and when it is, it is often rebuffed by players. The admin spends a significant amount of time trying to make sure these
things don't happen now, but nobody can undo the cheating done years ago, and that is often used as proof that things remain as they were
in the 1990s/2000s/etc.

Shesara wrote: I commend Lilith for adapting to the "request" for information; it's always great to see what is being changed in a domain. But, unfortunately, from what I heard and read, that change came when players started rumours about possible cheating. Everyone suddenly demanded to check every detail of Lilith's work for hints of cheating. I sincerely doubt a more "opaque structure" will remove this layer of mistrust. Wizards have already gone to great lengths to improve over the years, but players still engage in ridiculous rumours.

Unfortunately, this treatment of her work did take place. It got even more aggressive, when she tried to be even more transparent.

Shesara wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2022 16:05

This leads me to the comment about "opaque structure": This game is not a democracy in the sense that players get to decide what rules are set for the game. We as players are here to play the game, with rules defined by volunteers, who do their utmost to make it fun for everyone. No one is perfect, but why do we need to be able to see and discuss every tiny change to the game?

I commend Lilith for adapting to the "request" for information; it's always great to see what is being changed in a domain. But, unfortunately, from what I heard and read, that change came when players started rumours about possible cheating. Everyone suddenly demanded to check every detail of Lilith's work for hints of cheating. I sincerely doubt a more "opaque structure" will remove this layer of mistrust. Wizards have already gone to great lengths to improve over the years, but players still engage in ridiculous rumours.

Play the game, for Heaven's Sake! Have fun. Stop looking for faults in the actions of your Neighbours!

Since I was the one bringing the altar thingy into the public Genesis board, I guess I should reply to this.

Firstly - no, there is no "demand" about anything. In talking with Lilith after my public outburst, where I apologized
for going public before talking to her, I _suggested_ that greater transparency would be useful for her. Not because
she has an obligation to account for everything she does, but because it effectively KILLS every possibility to complain about hidden features and bias, when you let people know of features as they get implemented.

That I _demanded_ anything of the sort is simply not true, and if my suggestion was interpreted as such, I
apologize, Lilith. Funnily enough I've never gotten that impression from you yourself that you think so though,
but it seems to pop up every now and then from other sources.

If anything I'd say this is another example of how the Genesis rumor mill works. A suggestion on how to improve a situation was made by me and it was immediately twisted into me and others "demanding to sign off" on what Lilith is doing and forcing her to do it.

Further, this single report of one issue (the altar) against Lilith brought me accusations of cheating, derogatory comments,
and being accused by someone Lilith knows about using out of game info. This person also threatened to report everything concerning things reported against him/her or Lilith to AoP and made it perfectly clear she held me responsible for every complaint if it originates from a Fire Knife or someone I know.

Exactly why this person chose to go into some pissing contest with me over Lilith and her code, I don't know,
but I can only assume that this is one of the friends whom Lilith is referring to being griefed. Let me state plainly
here that the issue is not as clear cut as one side being right and the other being wrong.

Just as you should not trust anything whispered to you about a wizard, perhaps
you all should reflect on the fact that calling out for punishement and raising your
pitchforks just because you feel for someone who writes a moving emotional
note may be just as wrong.

I myself have stopped playing because of this situation. It takes too much time
and effort, and cause me too much disappointment and anger RL. In short I might be
of another opinion on who is griefing who here, so perhaps some self-scrutiny is in
order?

I don't necessarily think it is a "wizard vs mortals" thing. It's a people thing.
If better relations between all of us in this community are really to be achieved, we
need to acknowledge that we ALL have to ask ourselves what we can do to make it better,
regardless of if we have a mortal or wizard, or both.

It may not be a democracy, but it's supposed to be a community. In a community you listen to and
respect each other. In a community you take in opinions, you evolve and you try to make things better.

Trust is a valuable commodity which sadly is much easier to lose than to gain. It cannot be _demanded_ solely because you provide value to the game. Skill does not equate trust, nor does roleplay or guild positions as mortals, or positions in the Wizard world. When someone calls me a cheater and behaves derogatory to me as a player out of game, they lose my trust and respect, it's as simple as that.

As for opacity vs transparency, I am all for transparency.
If everything gets shut behind a black wall, the impression will be
that every opinion, constructive criticizm, feedback,
report on rule-breaking etc just gets ignored.

Transparency on the other hand has the power to obliterate
faulty rumours and stamp them out before they have had time to fester.
It also provides opportunity for people to see how much wizards
contribute and work for them, and perhaps build a greater appreciation
for their hard work.

Peace out:
/Seranders player