Genesis Forums

So if it was up to me, this is how I would change Genesis starting with a statcap.

Stacap - make it at the size of the biggest character who ever played. Also make the cap a stat average so people can still emphasize certain stats and so racial differences don't get lost when the cap is reached.

Make growth entirely dependent on killing. All experience a character has presently would be counted as kill exp. Get rid of general experience. Find a brute level that creates a growth speed that is reasonable and balanced. For example someone with a full time job, family, etc who still finds time to play for 10 to 15 hours a week should be able to hit champion in 12 to 18 months. Give everyone that brute level and then hide it so no one knows what it is. If some levels are cruised through and others take forever this way then change the titles.

Make a level of experience a milestone that once reached you can never fall below - champion maybe

Find new and creative reasons for people to do quests. I don't think we need anymore quests, I would just use the ones we have differently.

Examples:
- Like Rhaegar suggested, if you want to grow to legend or myth size then you have to have done either a certain number of quests, have a certain amount of quest exp or have done certain specific quests.

- If you want to use certain equipent you need to have completed a specific quest or quests - so if you want to use a runed falchion, for example, you need to complete certain quests in Sybarus.

- Certain quests could allow access to certain areas.

- Maybe some guilds might require a certain amount of quest experience or a series of quests completed in the domain the guild is located in in order to join.

- Give meaningful rewards to people who have reached a certain amount of quest experience or completed a certain number of quests

I am sure there are loads of things quests could be related to besides growth.

About quests in General:

Create a way in game for people to discuss quests openly and constructively-Perhaps by expanding the use of the newbie pin to include quest discussions. Encourage discussions that go beyond just vague hints. Draw the line at step by step maybe, but help with accurate syntax and fairly specific areas that items are found in should be encouraged.

Create a new, interesting endgame structure for those who reach the cap. Include the following characteristics...

The cap is reasonably reached by everyone but difficult to sustain for any length of time. PvP, crit hits, poison, traps, random deaths even. Make the endgame not so much reaching the cap but staying there. Make recovering and reaching the cap again much easier then reaching it the first time.

The endgame structure would demand a different playing style. Perhaps PvP and guild wars could become the focus for some. For others Neutral guild management, newbie/quest helping, area creation or roleplay challenges (whatever they mght be)

First and foremost though - the statcap!!!

Tive wrote:Well, changing the mortal levels was bad too, it made people grind even more. I bet that some of the myths would be happy if there were even more levels added though...

But I think it is too late now for introducing statcap.

I am not sure what you mean by it is too late. I agree it should have been done years ago but characters are still growing today. If its 10 years too late today in another 10 years it will simply be 20 years to late. As far as I am concerned it can't be done soon enough.

Greywolf wrote:

Tive wrote:Well, changing the mortal levels was bad too, it made people grind even more. I bet that some of the myths would be happy if there were even more levels added though...

But I think it is too late now for introducing statcap.

I am not sure what you mean by it is too late. I agree it should have been done years ago but characters are still growing today. If its 10 years too late today in another 10 years it will simply be 20 years to late. As far as I am concerned it can't be done soon enough.

I mean that people are overoptimistic that you can still bring number of new people, who never played MUDs before, to Genesis. So losing old players would actually be noticable and introducing a statcap would be just asking for it. Working for a game developer I showed Genesis to some people in the office (some of them played MUDs before) and even if they are quite open minded, they were not really interested and i dont think they tried it after my initial 'demo'. You may argue with me, but I think reality is quite harsh.

Tive wrote: I mean that people are overoptimistic that you can still bring number of new people, who never played MUDs before, to Genesis. So losing old players would actually be noticable and introducing a statcap would be just asking for it. Working for a game developer I showed Genesis to some people in the office (some of them played MUDs before) and even if they are quite open minded, they were not really interested and i dont think they tried it after my initial 'demo'. You may argue with me, but I think reality is quite harsh.

Ahhh...Unfortunately that does makes sense. However, there are 6 billiion people. As we really only need to attract a small percentage of them I am still hopeful...

Lets see.... .01% of 6 billion would be 60 million....could the server handle that?

Maybe the option would be to advertise Genesis in China!!

Tive wrote:Maybe the option would be to advertise Genesis in China!!

But then we would need more grind, not less

In a game where you can't permanently acquire gear, and where you can change races, "clases", etc. freely, stat growth is the only incentive for some people to keep playing. In other games where people reach the highest level, people either work to conquer increasingly difficult end-game content for increasingly better gear - or - they start up a new character so they can try out a different race or class.

To me, the exponentially-slower-but-still-increasing stat growth is functionally not much different than games where people grind content for slightly better and better gear that they permanently keep. At least the stat increase are at risk for loss from death (most gear-grinding games there is no risk for loss - gear is permanently acquired.)

High level characters need either SOMETHING to grind to make them stronger, or there needs to be a strong incentive to create a new character and start over. In Genesis, the latter doesn't really exist except for RP reasons.

Regarding your suggestion Rhaegar, I don't think it would serve much purpose. The myths we know now that grind a lot, would become the myths we know now that grind a lot and also did stat quests.

One solution some MUDs have implemented is the "remort" incentive. There's not much to grind at the highest level, but after a certain investment of play, the *player* "unlocks" the privilege of playing a rare race or "class" in the form of a new character. Sometimes, there are several cycles of remort - the first time around, you might have the option of playing a centaur, satyr, or pixie, and the next you might unlock the ability to play a demon or seraphim, etc, either as a new character or by sacrificing the original myth once you get bored enough to start over as something that is a rare and unique status symbol.

Fourtcoer wrote:One solution some MUDs have implemented is the "remort" incentive. There's not much to grind at the highest level, but after a certain investment of play, the *player* "unlocks" the privilege of playing a rare race or "class" in the form of a new character. Sometimes, there are several cycles of remort - the first time around, you might have the option of playing a centaur, satyr, or pixie, and the next you might unlock the ability to play a demon or seraphim, etc, either as a new character or by sacrificing the original myth once you get bored enough to start over as something that is a rare and unique status symbol.

Interesting.

while working on a stat cap remember to remove any race-bonuses/drawbacks currently in place
why have them if everybody would be capped at the same level anyway ... humans "evenly" setting for the win ...

oh and re-balance WHOLE Gen again, so that ppl with lower stats can acquire some of the current gear ...

what else ... re-balance WHOLE combat, because there'd be no bonus for playing fighter races anymore anyway ... or do you want exceptions from the rule (like ogres?)

aaaaand - say goodbye to many people who spent large amounts of time grinding their ways up ... who are you to suddenly penalize them for having the time/macros/friends/skills (macro coding skills included) that you don't have?

ps.: Fourt got it quite well there, except I myself wouldn't go for any "remort" - this is not WoW, where I have the time to start another and another and another char with my BOA sets of gear

Lets try and settle this once and for all...

We all know everyone who continues to play Genesis does so for the fun of grinding and racing to be largest. None of that other stuff about roleplay, guild dynamics, exploration, personal achievement, etc. is crucial to keeping login numbers high, which is the true test of success. This is why those players who are logged in 24-hours a day, most of those hours grinding endlessly even after they have reach mythical proportions, are our most valuable assets. Doing anything to disturb their motivation would be a disaster. We need to do as much as possible to ensure mindless bot-like behavior is accepted, so long as their desk job actually enables them to monitor their character, so that we do not loose our stranglehold on those players who play only to gain tremendous advantage through endless scripted killing.

This is clearly why a stat cap has never been implemented and never should be.

An alternative approach would be encouraging people to spend quality time playing, enjoying peaceful relaxation living a fantasy or exciting and tactical confrontation and conquest, all out of the immediate pleasure. But with the knowledge that people are out there gaining advantage with every trigger, those with any sense of competition cannot rest easily and savor such game elements. That would require a stat cap that limited such advantage and we've already established that is not something we want.

Case close. Settled. No stat cap.