Genesis Forums

Problem here is that most myths are so afraid of dying, in the past people got killed to left and right(back in the angmar wars)you had 5-6 people killed in a day(without any recovery)yet people kept on trucking.

There is always going to be a faction who will be superior in power/numbers who will take advantage of it, it goes back and forth, always have and always will.

Either you join a neutral guild and enjoy playing it safe or you choose a side and do your best to avoid getting pkilled.

Arman wrote:As for the community council, that became a bit of a farce. I think CCP regretted ever creating that.

Does Genesis need a community council? Our playerbase isn't big... and doesn't this forum serve the same purpose?

A lot of the people that have been elected over the years are certainly farcical! The entire idea though? Throughout the years the aspects of the game represented by those elected are the most often reviewed/changed. That sounds like success to me. As for regret, I highly doubt it. What's to regret? Every single aspect has worked in their favor. Sure, there is grumbling and much gnashing of teeth on the forums, but where isn't there? People bitch and moan, that is what we do. And yet those very grumblers are still there playing after 14 years and not asking for deletion.

Is it needed here? I don't know. I guess we would have to start by asking the question of how seriously the player's ideas are taken here. I can't answer that, I am not a wizard. I am trying to find a way to bring up an example of how, in my opinion, players ideas are marginalized and ignored by the wizards even when it represents a clear majority opinion. To be honest though, I am not able to do so without being overly sarcastic at this time. So I am I going to let it go.

Freya wrote:Problem here is that most myths are so afraid of dying, in the past people got killed to left and right(back in the angmar wars)you had 5-6 people killed in a day(without any recovery)yet people kept on trucking.

There is always going to be a faction who will be superior in power/numbers who will take advantage of it, it goes back and forth, always have and always will.

Either you join a neutral guild and enjoy playing it safe or you choose a side and do your best to avoid getting pkilled.

I agree 100% on the size issue. I mentioned it and do believe that it is one of the larger contributing factors to the death of PVP. As for joining a neutral guild, if only it were that simple. Unfortunately, you will always have those who join a guild at war and then bitch that they don't want to PVP. The conversation is depressingly predictable.

I've given a great deal of thought as to how to make pvp more fun in Genesis. Here are a few of the ideas that I think would work. But, they all come with various downsides:

• Implement the damned stat cap: This is the one that would probably fix everything. The upsides are considerable - It would give us a way to truly balance things, create an even playing field in terms of character power, and it has been proven to be effective in nearly every successful commerial game out there. In doing this, we would also want to make it so that the racial stat modifiers are considerably less pronounced, perhaps adding a straight number of stat points rather than scaling as your stat grows. The downside, that has always and still does prevent us from going this direction is that we stand to lose a huge number of dedicated players, due to the fact that we are literally removing from their characters years, and in some cases decades of progress that they have worked toward (depending on where we set the cap.)
• Plateau death penalty with mortal levels: With this change, we would make it so that once you have reached a given mortal level, you cannot lose exp if you are at the point of that plateau. For example, once you reached "wanderer" you could die 1000 times but death could never take more experience than what is needed to achieve the "wanderer" level. Once you rose to the next mortal level, the plateau vs. death penalty would shift. This would be true all the way up to myth. The upside here is that once you achieve a given level, you can rest assured that you will never lose that level by dying. It gives you that feeling of "ding!" that you get in games like WoW when you reach a new level - you've achieved something significant that you will never lose. It also gives you a feeling of carte blanche when you do die down to the threshhold. Now death carries no fear for you, and you could pvp with impunity (gear withstanding, of course.) Gear loss would become the death penalty if you were happy to pvp as a bare-bones myth, for example, since you could not lose any stats. The downsides would include the fact that we might get people who simply don't fear death, and therefore have no way to be influenced in their behavior. The whole "spit in the face of the BDA General and laugh" problem surfaces. Another downside would be the fact that this would mean people could not respec their stats if they wanted to guildhop - but that, to be honest, is another design problem entirely.
• Create auto-recovery of one week: With this change, you could die, and no matter what happened, you would recover back to where your exp had been in the course of seven days, even if you did nothing but idle, and even if you didn't log in. The nice thing about this would be that it would still allow us to give a steep death penalty, but it would mean that the penalty does not take your level from you until *you* can recover it. Rather, time will recover your level for you, regardless of your own efforts and toil. There are some nice implications here for pvp. One is that once you die, you become less powerful. This means that your enemies could still profit from your death, and at no point would your behavior become subject to zero-loss of stats as in the idea above. Any death would push the recovery time forward another 7 days. It also means that if you wanted to pvp, you could do so knowing that the worst possible stat punishment you might incur would be one-week of being less powerful than you are at full recovery. The downside is that it might make people want to not log in for a week, rather than play and risk having their recovery pushed forward another 7 days if they were to be killed again. This might be one of those things where certain people prefer to stay away and recover in safety, while others would just revel in chaos and go right back out and fight more, knowing that death never stings for too long. I am not sure what way the majority would swing, but I am always reluctant to implement design that gives people an incentive to not log in.

These are the ideas that I feel have real merit so far. There are other ideas that I have heard that would be a lot more interesting and potentially better, but those ideas involve a massive amount of code redesign. The above three would be easy to implement, and thus are realistic options.

G.

gorboth wrote:I've given a great deal of thought as to how to make pvp more fun in Genesis. Here are a few of the ideas that I think would work. But, they all come with various downsides:

• Implement the damned stat cap:
• Plateau death penalty with mortal levels:
• Create auto-recovery of one week:
  
  These are the ideas that I feel have real merit so far. There are other ideas that I have heard that would be a lot more interesting and potentially better, but those ideas involve a massive amount of code redesign. The above three would be easy to implement, and thus are realistic options.
  
  G.

The statcap like you said would be like telling everyone that has been here for more than a few years that they can just go **** themselves unless there is some other bonus involved for the in my case, 16 years of playing genesis. All because a couple of newbies dont wanna try putting the same effort into making the bullshit quests and the same amount of grind. And no, I do not care if anyone of the newbs take offence, there are people in the game thats been here for over 20 years and have yet to reach myth, not ONE schred of crying has been heard Strange as it is tho, those people are not getting hunted either.

The plateu would make for people growing out of controll even faster, if we're combating sizes, I'd rather have a heavy statcap that made xping above myth useless unless we're talking some messed up amounts of XP.

Now THIS is interesting, would people regain it from 7 days actually played? Or can one idle and regain it? Would we reduce or raise the penalty? Would it still be so that you could die down to veteran, reach 9-10 links in blademasters within a week? (and yes, I have done it, it is VERY possibly and not even hard with the death recovery)


The thing is this, either you let everyon reach insane sizes, is wich good I suppose as it would level out the playing field SLIGHTLY now that you consider some myths almost having another champ size added to their myth. So we'd still have the same crap, how long do you think it takes 2 of the biggest... lets say BDA to kill a fresh myth? We're not even talking a minute since they are so insanely much larger beyond myth.

One way would be to remove quests (YES! OH A THOUSANT TIMES YES!) as a MUST have since its REALLY hampering some of the newbies and but a BRUTAL softcap around myth on the xp gained, still ofcourse requiring quite some work, be it questing (no I did not say you should remove it alltogether, just not make it something you must do for months on end) or grinding, as for grinding set a permanent level of... lets say... brutal untill champ, then it starts going up again untill you strike ex vio at Myth.

What about looking at the race issue in combination with option 3?

Kas wrote:What about looking at the race issue in combination with option 3?

Now we're talking balance, are you daft? Cant have that

Three worlds to all: remove death recovery.
It will limit stats naturally (char with extr violent will not be able to recover to same level withing reasonable amount of time). So, natural "death rate" will effectively "stat cap" everyone somewhere around violent, what means legend-myth level. With rumored "crithit deaths" it will be even more effective.

Davvol wrote:Three worlds to all: remove death recovery.
It will limit stats naturally (no one with extr violent will not be able to recover to same level withing resorkontrole amount of time). So, natural "death rate" will effectively "stat cap" everyone somewhere around violent, what means legend-myth level. With rumored "crithit deaths" it will be even more effective.

The problem is however when we have a couple of people that are unbeatable and are just... well killing everyone, the game would be out of people in a month

Draugor wrote:

The problem is however when we have a couple of people that are unbeatable and are just... well killing everyone, the game would be out of people in a month

I don't think so. I remember old days, when "violent" was "end of the game". And "critical hits" from NPCs was reality, there was chance to die from FVW with immortall con fighting ant in Sparkle.