Genesis Forums

Kvator wrote:

Draugor wrote: Oh... Arman will find a way Just look at Valars

Ohh I proposed big cooldown and limited usage on "kender essentials" myself

Meh, just bring back the old weight of stones for kenders 10 stones and you cant move

Draugor wrote:

Kvator wrote:

Draugor wrote: Oh... Arman will find a way Just look at Valars

Ohh I proposed big cooldown and limited usage on "kender essentials" myself

Meh, just bring back the old weight of stones for kenders 10 stones and you cant move

Then I'll turn off the sling - what's the difference?

Focus on dodge, maybe taunt with ur nerf ideas

Amberlee wrote:*grabs popcorn and awaits the inevitable nerfs*

It's a really interesting dilemma.

Most of the issues you the players have highlighted about the game largely can be associated with this formula error. White hits meaningless? This error. How relatively useless two weapon combat is? This error. Why guilds without strong special attacks like monks or rangers or kender are not competitive compared to those guilds with strong special attacks? This error. Why haste is more useful than it should be? This error.

The simple fix makes all specials weaker. And for most it is a nerf. A big nerf... we are used to our specials doing 270% more than they are supposed to. So simply 'fixing' specials isn't a palatable option for the administration seeing most players are used to a certain output of their specials.

Do we boost white hit damage to align with what specials do currently? That would address a few issues but would make tanking harder as npcs would benefit from white hit damage.

Leave as is? That doesn't sit well with me, as a lot of our balance assumptions are based on core formulas being correct. And this kinda is a big one!

Anyway, the admin are taking our time thinking on this one. We don't want to rush a solution of global proportions (well some of us don't). But we are going to have to think about what sort of solution best suits the direction we want the game to go, and what provides the best experience for the players. And I do think possible changes could be really positive for the game as a whole!

Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them

Meet the corrective measures in the middle? Cut special power from 270% to 140%, boost white hits accordingly, so the nerf is not as severe?

Arman wrote: Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them

1 - thanks for update and this transparent approach which is kind of new quality for this game (imho lack of transparency was a big issue that lead to belief - prolly justified in some cases - that some players have advantage due to wiz info and the game being corrupted because of that)

2 - as for ideas: sent you some kender-related ones some time ago, got some more but dunno if it's desirable atm

Wow, stunning news!

First off, it makes absolute sense to drop the the specials' scaling to the intended values (100% I guess) and plan on how to balance from there. That's a huge scale-down in power so every one of us will suddenly be dismayed and that's understandable. I see it as incredible opportunity to alter the style of combat/farming, possibly pushing group play more. #make_rangers_great (there is no "_again").

Buffing white hits would make some guilds (those without good defenses, abilities to wear shields or penalized for encumbrance) completely unable to kill anything above a water kroug without a tank. It would make guilds depending on white hits super powerful (everyone goes ogre?).

Leaving it as it is isn't an option according to Arman, since so much would be fixed by it and balance seems impossible with the bug in place.

Nerfing dmg would make people unhappy since we'd all be hitting like wet noodles, but it would solve the issue of lacking reasons for teams, hunting grounds for myths+, and overall bring new challenges with creative solutions.

Fun times.

Thanks Kvator and Tulasi <3

Nerf it all and don't look back.

Arman wrote:

Amberlee wrote:*grabs popcorn and awaits the inevitable nerfs*

It's a really interesting dilemma.

Most of the issues you the players have highlighted about the game largely can be associated with this formula error. White hits meaningless? This error. How relatively useless two weapon combat is? This error. Why guilds without strong special attacks like monks or rangers or kender are not competitive compared to those guilds with strong special attacks? This error. Why haste is more useful than it should be? This error.

The simple fix makes all specials weaker. And for most it is a nerf. A big nerf... we are used to our specials doing 270% more than they are supposed to. So simply 'fixing' specials isn't a palatable option for the administration seeing most players are used to a certain output of their specials.

Do we boost white hit damage to align with what specials do currently? That would address a few issues but would make tanking harder as npcs would benefit from white hit damage.

Leave as is? That doesn't sit well with me, as a lot of our balance assumptions are based on core formulas being correct. And this kinda is a big one!

Anyway, the admin are taking our time thinking on this one. We don't want to rush a solution of global proportions (well some of us don't). But we are going to have to think about what sort of solution best suits the direction we want the game to go, and what provides the best experience for the players. And I do think possible changes could be really positive for the game as a whole!

Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them

This is a real interesting dilemma actually.
When it comes down to it, the nerfbat is inevitable here.
But perhaps not nerf it completely, rather take away that 70% and make it an even 200%?
It's still a solid nerf, but it would fix some issues like for example many melee guilds flat out doing more damage than casters now because they do both white hits and specials that hit almost equally hard.

If the "balance document" expects 100% instead of 270% (or is more rediculous as a +270% bonus?) are there any reasons not to adhere to it other than "I liked being op"? (Not anyone personally, in general)