Need for a change

[Alorrana]

All sounds fine.. besides the 30% stat drop. Yeah we are huge, so what..? And those who get dropped, will proberly stop playing for a good amount of time, then return and grow back asap. Remember the game is also for those who just see a number, sad but true, some just wants to be the biggest, and if there is 20 of them they will grow insainly big again to compeate with eachother.

Stat drop isnt the call here, I would be insainly angry if something i worked on 12 years just got pissed away because some other players feel that we are to big..

Make some seriously hard grinding ultra violent myth/legend only areas. dont make them hold all sorts of good items, but let them be very hard to kill, and lots of em, and a huge area. then the myth problem wouldnt be a problem, Not that it is now.. Again look at Aragorn from LOTR, he can slay hundreds of the best Isengaard and Mordor can muster, he easely beats 5 nazguls with a torch... (ref movie) and he keeps on going.. hes what i would call a myth in genesis, a SERIOUSLY huge one too. Why shouldnt people be allowed to be just as cool..? Legolas takes down an Olifant quite easy, and the men on it.. Hes a Huge myth too.. if it was genesis.. The game needs to let players grow.. to what ever insaino size they will, then when they feel Ohh dear, im borred, they should be able to retire their chars, transfere q or c xp, and then start a fresh one, and your Myth would be a statue in sparkle or somewhere, for people to remember fondly.

again just my oppinion here. But i seriously doubt a stat drop is needed.. If anything Up the world..

[Laurel]

back in the days there were also huge chars (in comparison to new ones) like Thunder, Bebop, etc.
I don't think the 10-20 huge chars there are right now would matter if there was 120+ ppl online ...

[Cherek]

I agree with Laurel too! (wow?)

Size of a few elite grinders would not seem like a huge problem with more players since they most likely would be a minority.

People grow huge now because of a number of things, but a big part in it is because a majority of the playerbase enjoy the grind. Before people used to enjoy a lot of other things as well. Like RP, politics, pvp, etc.

Like I said earlier its more of a co-op game now, where you grind stats and/or collect things. (EQ, money, imbuements).

I seriously miss the other part, the rivalry as Targun said. And I too think its very neceassary to get it back for the game to be successful again.

Now I dont think we need to do any immense drastic changes to achieve it. Call me naive but I think a bunch of new players would solve it. WITHOUT any changes to anything.

Having that said I agree with most of your suggestions Targun. Except the size-reduction, however I dont think any of them are needed before we can start campaigning for new players.

To change all that would take a number of years most likely. We need new players yesterday and I think the game is good enough for people to stick around long enough to be hooked. We even got that newbie dungeon now..

So the only thing lacking imho is a webpage and a coordinated compaign to draw in new players.

[Makfly]

I agree with Laurel too! (wow?)

Size of a few elite grinders would not seem like a huge problem with more players since they most likely would be a minority.

Funny, as I actually interpreted Laurels comment, as meaning it wouldn't matter much, if the 10-20 elite grinders stomped their feet and left, if the game instead got an average population of a 120.

I guess one reads what one wants to read

[Cherek]

Heh, well I think my interpretation was the right one.

[Targun]

We won't get 120 players on the spot. And it's highly unlikely, if we ever do when players- compared to the game mechanics- remain so big. If two big guys can do any xpground regardless the guild, except for calians, then this is a dead end.
It's not that you would have become a titan after scaling down. Myth remains a myth, titan remains a titan, proportions between players are kept. It's about scaling point values down, as it is much easier to do so, than making all npcs bigger by 30%. Which is not what we would be aiming at anyway- bigger npcs mean more xp->faster growth-> you know the cycle.

Genesis as it is does not encourage teaming much. The thing is, players are unlikely to team and bring new poeple, if they don't need them. More importantly, the way many people who play Gen see the mud is- the less players, the better. More prime stuff for me, less competition. It almost bacame a fully scriptable single player.
It eludes me what possible fun and pleasure can such an approach give. Genesis is by no means ready to support 60 players. There is Icewall, Quali, Mithas and TT, which is just about for 2, maximum 3 teams of 2-3 players to not have too many periods of idling and waiting for the respawn.

When designing team play you've got to keep in mind that if a player can do something alone, he'll probably do it by himself. Why? Do you ask for help when you prepare yourself a cup of tea? Or to hammer a nail into the wall? People work together and ask for help when such is needed. When they both feel needed and get a satisfaction that through working together they reached their aim, which would not be obtainable otherwise. You may not need a hand with hammering a nail into the wall, but you and your best friend can make all by yourself a bench or a swing to your garden, and you'll both have fun and satisfaction from working on it, as you both contributed to the final result and the other one would not manage to do it without your help- thus feeling of importance and belonging. If you tell people- team and bring new guys, they'll respond why? And you'll go: 'Because... eee... errr... ummm...'.

Everyone's talking about new poeple but whe something is to be done, that would actually encourage them to play Genesis, a vast majoristy is:'oh wait, I would loose something here. I don't want new guys any longer. The reason for having new players is not to see 100 online in 'who' and thinkinking, great I'm better than the rest 90. It's about making the game attractive and trust me, you'll suddenly find so many- often better than grinding activities.

[Alexi]

Instead of scaling down everyone, why not make everyone fit a "niche". Right now could I solo Qualinosti, Terel Trolls or Mithas, yes probably with the right gear and herbs, but why don't I? Because its much more effective for me to gather a team and take them with me (Not to mention way less boring). I fill the roll of a tanker, they of the damage do'ers.

I think the game does promote teaming, and rarely do you see someone out soloing large "xp grounds" without having team-mates. The problem is making "teaming" more attractive. If there was a area out there for the "elite power players" that required 4-5 members to successfully accomplish that (Icewall is the closest example) it would be happening already.

But Area's that require the most work for the xp, aren't really grinded all that much. People scale down to lesser-xp worth NPCS that can be done more effectively.

So either the game balances out, and makes a guild fit a "Role" or they change the grinding area's to promote great XP for hard work. Right now I think a interesting (PVP) solution would be to make Guild-Homes worth the best XP (Think of Raiding Minas Tirith, Gladiators, what-not) and in a essence this would promote guild conflict also. Then again thats mechanically driven. Just an idea.

[gorboth]

This has become a truly great thread. Targun, you really did a great job responding to Cherek's appeal for actual suggestions. Fantastic stuff! I found myself reading it, too, and absolutely agreeing with most of it.

Stats: scale down, everyone by 30%- we're too big, Genesis was never designed for such sizes

I've really been thinking about this. Alorrana - don't worry. You wouldn't lose the advantages over other players you've spent years developing. That is the beauty of an overall scaled reduction. What you would lose would be your advantage over the npcs in the game that were actually designed to be a challenge, rather than total fodder. We could do a scaling that takes into account whether or not you are an actual interactive player. Npcs get the current formula, and players something new. This would need to be looked at, but would be one of the easiest things to try and see how it works.

Skills: alter the function of defence/wep skill so they are not linear, but resemble Gaussian Distribution or geometric series, which will eventually divide players more specificly between tanking/dps/healing classes.

Hmmm ... I'd need to research this, as I'm not familiar with Gaussian Distribution. Can you tell me more?

Spells:
*Healing Lower the cost of healing. A healer should be a must be for any team expecting decent xp. Tank, dps, healer is how should things be orginezed.
*Offensive: use the mmorpgs solution. Lower the mana cost/increase mana regeneartion. Spellcasters run in clothes, not fullplates. They do much dmg, but are vurnelable to physical attacks, plus have some interesting 'magical' skills, teleports, some kind of crowd control. Effect: warrior can stand up to a magic user, they are no longer overpowered. Magic user does not have to kill in 1-3 spells. With lowered mana cost/ways to regain mana, he can be casting almost all the time. Way more amusing for everyone.

You know - this is very similar to what we are doing. One of the major ideas with the recode of magic is to make mana pools regenerate much much faster, so that the "burst" dynamic of a magic user's arsenal really is limited by their mana in a way that facilitates better gameplay. The idea about cheaper healing is interesting.

*Npcs holding magic weapons: It was mentioned already- make them relatively stronger. No more soloing huge badasses. Team being the only way to pry those precious items.

I like it.

*Dmg/hit rating- increase dmg output from regular attacks by A LOT. This would happen to a point with non-linear skills combat aid, but it can be multiplied by 2 or whatever number. Of course some simulations would need to be ran to judge how new ways of calculating skills affect gameplay.

Interesting ... again, it would be very easy to test and revert as we learn the effect.

All in all ... thank you for these suggestions. They have definitely been good to read and consider.

G.

[Amberlee]

10 years ago i would be all for this.
But with the current playerbase i dont think the way to go is to actually enforce teaming.
Rather... Make new and improved places where things are like you say.
Like expand Faerun and add some of those ideas..
Like monster huge NPCs where you NEED a big team...
Grinding spots where healers are a must have..

Give the Balrog actual gear that is worth having!!!
So that people have a reason to gather a team and go kill him.

[Ilrahil]

I like most of the ideas but I can guarantee scaling down you would lose a lot of the population.

Its not a threat but I know myself and a few of my close friends would be gone instantly if that happened.