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I think this topic kinda derailed... so I am gonna try steer it towards a balance discussion again.

I am a little surprised nobody but me reacted to the rock, paper, scissors model Petros explained. Am I the only one the finds it... wrong? Now the whole idea of rock, paper, scissors balancing is nothing new. We've heard it explained many times, and that it our way of balancing things, but the stuff Petros said before doesnt make sense to me...

So I am gonna bring it up again for discussion, maybe someone can enlighten me if its something I dont understand. But from reading Petros ports earlier in this thread, this is how I understood it:

Rock beats scissors, paper beats rock, scissors beat paper.

In our world that would mean:

Undeads beat fighters. Undead hunters (Now the Scops, after recode mainly new worshippers) beat undeads. Fighters beat undead hunters.

That all makes sense, and probably has the potential to work.

What I dont get is that the idea Petros presented is NOT the above, the idea is:

Undeads beat fighters. Undead hunters are EQUAL to undeads. The relationship between fighters and undead hunters are unknown, but I am assuming fighters should beat undead hunters?

But the main point is this:

If we played the real children's game called "rock, paper, scissors", and paper only beat rock half of the time, the whole game breaks. The kids would soon figure out that using rock all the time would mean you win. It would not make sense to play scissors or paper. Since rock is better than the other two options.

If this is really what you meant Petros, could you please explain how exactly its supposed to work? Because it sure sounds... wrong. If youre doing rock, paper, scissor model instead of equally balanced guilds, then I think you should do it the whole way, because from what you described, youre describing an imbalanced game of rock, paper, scissors... and I just cant figure out how that supposed to make sense?

The explanation you gave doesnt say rock, paper, scissors, it says "Undeads are the best PVP race". And thats not balance. Now, you're free to make undeads the best PVP race, but then its not a rock, paper, scissors, model anymore. It cant be something in between I think. Either it's rock, paper, scissors, or it's not.

The so called "undead hunters" actually hurt VERY well on non-undeads as long as they are evil So right now they would be the "top" so to speak, thankfully they arent the most militant of players in there, or rather sadly they arent since they dont actually offer any sort of resistance to the undeads

Undead hunters usually combine magic and melee, sounds much like a Ranger to me;)

I personally would not classify Spirit Circle members as "undead hunters". That is far to much of a generalization.

Windemere

Windemere wrote:I personally would not classify Spirit Circle members as "undead hunters". That is far to much of a generalization.

Windemere

Well thats what Petros called you. Whether you like it or not thats what you are!:)

Draugor wrote:The so called "undead hunters" actually hurt VERY well on non-undeads as long as they are evil So right now they would be the "top" so to speak, thankfully they arent the most militant of players in there, or rather sadly they arent since they dont actually offer any sort of resistance to the undeads

Well the whole idea should in my opinion be that for an undead hunter to kill non undeads you need some fighter aid to be successful. And for undeads to kill undead hunters, they too need to enlist fighter aid. And if you wanna kill a fighter, the best way to do it is with undead help.

In theory that would make sense. But yeah, it means undead hunters should be EXCELLENT against undead, not just decent, and they should also be quite poor against non undeads, not great against anything just because its evil. Then you also get an imbalance.

All mages aren't undeads only the Nazguls. That is important to remember I think. But maybe the code count all mages undead, I have no idea.

arcon wrote:All mages aren't undeads only the Nazguls. That is important to remember I think. But maybe the code count all mages undead, I have no idea.

From my understanding of the Mages, this is not accurate.

and, if Petros calls us undead hunters I think it is because he is over simplifying for the sake of explaining the Balance Model.

There is far more that goes into the guild than what is on the surface.

Windemere

Now you're all focusing on the wrong things again!

Dont you find the balance model strange too?!?! Or is it just me?!

I agree it sounds strange but he might be missunderstood. We have not yet seen the whole picture of the balance project. Another strange thing is releasing opposite factions at different time. I still have hope for a good end result though.