Genesis Forums

Freya: Why must it _hurt_ for them who die in pvp? Does it make you feel better knowing others suffer more? And why would everyone behave like jackasses all of a sudden just because they dont lose much dying? I surely would not. I have no reason to think others would. Why would people suddenly go kill themselves in front of other players just because it "only" takes a fanta to regain the progress lost? No, you gotta explain what you mean. What is behaving like a jackass?

People would suddenly go around spamming F**k you Freya! (sounds unlikely, and sounds like harassment if so)
People would go around poking MMs in the eyes and making fun of them since they only lose a fanta when killed? (why would anyone do that anyway? why make a fool of yourself, lose eq, and a fanta just for the sake of being stupid?, makes no sense to me..)
People would be more daring and take more risks attacking guild halls and other players? (is that being a jackass? I think it sounds fun...)

I dont know, what is this jackass behavior you are so afraid of? But perhaps there is something I am not, I'd be happy to hear what you think would happen.

Lets look at positive effects a little while:

Less players who gets murdered will quit the game.
Less players who die and temporarly quits the game
Less players who spend weeks, months and years (yes, casual players spend that much time) grinding to recover, meaning they can join the pfighting again and try to get back sooner).
Less players who idle in the guildhalls afraid to go out.
Less players who actually log out when an enemy is logged in.
Less players who run from an attack at the first sign of danger
More players who would dare participate in a pfight

Anyway, lowering pvp death penalty is my suggestion.

The other one is keeping the penalty as it is but capping stats to even the playing field, but thats way more drastic of course.

Whats your suggestions?

Because even you must admit it isnt working that well? There is alot of ANGER around with the current pvp situation, wouldnt it be more fun if we could have a healthy pvp where those who die says: "Oh crap, damnit you got me this time, but Ill get you next time!" instead of: "I f**king hate you! I am gonna quit the game and never return, this shit sucks." Whats the fun in that? Would it not feel good killing someone knowing the killed one still enjoys the game? I just dont think players pvp because they LIKE to see others suffer and eventually quit the game. I certainly hope thats not the case atleast...

Look at other successful games. Any successful game has the player keep on playing. We have in many ways a destructive game, because when you "lose" you wanna quit. Thats not good. No good at all. Its fun for a very small selection of elite players, and it sucks for the rest of us. I wanna PVP myself but since I dont want to bot, or spend weeks and months grinding myself to myth first, I have no place in the game's PVP becuase if I even attempt to join in, the risk is way too big so I wouldnt even dream of it. That sucks I think.

It's fairly obvious that the few dominating the game will call for harsh PvP death punishments, though perhaps the game should listen to the ones that are on the recieving end of the grief.
Namely the ones that the game supposedly want to attract, new players which inevitably is also smaller players.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the punishment for PvP death is lowered and also scales to size, so the Myths would be hurt _alot_ more than if a rising hero get's killed.*
Couple that with stats playing _alot_ less of a role in PvP combat, so the playing field is more level and in turn much more interesting, rather than a few abusing the masses for their own entertainment, but to the detriment of the game in general.

The Haves will always want to keep the game skewed in their favour so they can continue to lord over the Have Not's, nothing new in that. But it just doesn't make for a very healthy game environment that fosters growth and attract new players, which is what this game really need the most.


*Now someone will say, "But a veteran can recover from death in 2 days, that IS scaling".
Sure, maybe if you have a Myth buddy to hand you gear, drag you through all the best Xp areas, and you play much more than most players can or will play. Not to mention many, non-seconds will actually not have so huge Quest-xp levels as the experienced players either.
All of these statements are often based on extremes, which most players never can achieve. Like the last time someone mentioned that you can just become a Myth in 6 months - suuuure. It's doable, but not for the vast majority of the community.
Therefore, the statements are also useless for balancing purposes.

I dont think death should be cheap, having it cost is what makes our game diffrent from so many others.

But sure I guess some modification to the recovery system could be made, the 90 days recovery thingy sounded good, where you step by step recover a little every day for 90 days, until your fully recovered.

And then if you play and grind in xp it goes quicker to reach the goal.


I do not know how hard this is to code though, I am no wizard and it might be too complicated to put into
the game, either way I think it would be a nice idea

Freya: Even for me with limited coding experience it doesnt sound complicated at all. I'd take that, its something. 60 days would be better though:)

But I think the main problem, that lowering penalty/increasing recovery wont fix, is that the hardcore myths have their own game where they can do as they please with any other players. Only other hardcore myths can stop them. It would be much more fun if everyone could participate in pvp, and that the smaller ones actually could get back at the bigger ones somehow.

Makfly:

To continue your idea of stats not meaning as much. I somehow think the myths and legends would seriously not like that. I mean, thats why they grinded so much... I dislike the size differences, and I wish there had been no "new" titles, no new uber-xp areas, no death recovery, and everything that made sizes this huge... but now we are here so... can we seriously just remove everything they worked for? I dont know.

However...
Perhaps we could add some type of team bonus in PVP?

What if two heroes could take down one myth? That would truly change things around. A single myth would still be as big, still have their huge stats, could still intimidate and kill a hero easily. But going up against two would be another matter.

So.. if we make it simple (I know it doesnt really work this way, but just for the sake of it)

Now, you'd have to adjust the math a little, because statwise a myth is probably more than 4 levels bigger than a hero, but in simple terms something like this.

Hero is level 12

Myth is level 16

Level 16 beats levels 12.

Levels 12s gang up.

12+12 is 24.

24 vs 16 is a win for the heroes.

Couldnt this system work?

What does mega myth Freya say if she could be taken down by two heroes? Good or bad?

I dont think its unrealistic at all that a number advantage would also be a big advantage in a fight.

But you say, thats how it works already, its just that myths are so much bigger than a hero, thats why they cant kill a myth. Well, thats were we add the "Number advantage variable" to the fight to even it up!

Realistically now... even three or maybe four heroes cant even beat a myth :p

Amberlee: Not without the CNAV they cant!

(CNAV = Cherek's Number Advantage Variable).

Seriously if two heroes could challenge a myth I think we'd have much more fun pvp and way less bullying by the big ones. And less NEED to be uber-big, without removing the will to grow for those who want to. Becoming big could be a _choice_ not a must. Like it should be.

Too bad since there is no stat cap, the hero can be 12 and the myth can be 362.

Even at titan, I wouldn't challenge anything above expert cuz I'm squishy.

-b

While I do think things need to change to make PvP more fun for everyone, I do not think making a death cost a fantastic progress is the solution.


Death should still be a harsh thing after all. But the time limit to recovery could speed things up, hell make it 60 days for an ordinary death and then 30 days for a PvP death if you so wish.


As for the idea of having 2 heroes beat a myth, problem would be the possible abuse that would occur, getting a char up to hero takes me a week at most with some help(and I am sure there's those who can do it even quicker), problem is then, should 2 people who gotten to hero be able to kill me and take away what has taken me 250 game days and 10 years of gaming to build up ?


Of course I am going to say no to that


I'm all for leveling the PvP playingfeld some, but lets be realistic, if you punish everyone above hero, and give them 0 advantages, whats to say they will not leave the game or just create a new alt , join the best pfighting melee guild out there(read knights)and go on pkill rampage?

Bromen: Yes, and thats my point and why I want to reward advantage in numbers instead of only stats. Two heroes was an example by the way.

Well the problem is... it takes 10 years and 250 days of playing to challenge you. Thats not good either... sure, having spent so much time you should have benefits. And you have! You'll still have huge stats being able to take down huge NPCs alone, and almost anyone in 1vs1 combat. And not even counting everything you as a player have learned during your time here, you'll still be a kickass playerfighter... And if you grab a hero friend you'd beat the two heroes of course. It wouldnt make being a myth useless at all. But it could give smaller people a chance too. Those of us who dont want to/or can spend 250 days of playing to have a chance... who said we must reward time spent and grinding so much as we do?

About abuse... you worry alot about that. Well YOU could create new chars and get them heroes in no time. You and a select number of others. The majority of the rest of us cant. And its for us, the majority of players, we need to do something to even things out. Even if it stings a little for you big myths.

But lets think about the future. Where we want to be. Think about a game with 100 players online, where 50 are new players, 45 are old casual players, and 5 are elite hardcore players like you. The risk of some of your enemies deciding to start new chars just to get you is pretty slim.....?

Anyway, 30 days for a pvp death doesnt sound like a so bad idea. Add atleast a small "number advantage" so two champions could take down a myth and we might have something?