Size inflation, gear inflation...

[Arcon]

Please do something about kuko. It is just too easy to get and it is too good. Lower them to +5 in awareness and make them a lot rarer. There are other items that help awareness as well and imbuements. Kuko is just making things harder for people that want to sneak.



btw we should prolly make a "Sneak & Hide Rant" thread.

[Laurel]

actually lowering awareness across the mobs and guilds would be a better idea imo
it's more cool to actually go and get the herb to use it, instead of just having enough awareness given in your guilds to use all the time anyway
it would boost Rangers in combat meanwhile as well, so that would address my usual Ranger rant at least slightly ;p

now really - aside from AA (who are opposing a sneaky guild) ... what excuses do other guilds have for awareness (higher than AG) anyway?

[Cherek]

Is great sneak and hide skills such a good thing to have at all?

In PVP, the stuff people usually complain the most about is the inability to find your opponents, and guilds with some type of invisibilty has always been the ones that recieve the most complaints. And not surprisingly.

I dont think anyone should be able to be invisible, like Cot say perhaps simply better function, but more randomness would do the trick, but being able to sneak around without anyone ever seeing you I dont believe in at all. It does nothing to encourage interaction, and I think its interaction this game needs the most.

[Amberlee]

Is great sneak and hide skills such a good thing to have at all?

In PVP, the stuff people usually complain the most about is the inability to find your opponents, and guilds with some type of invisibilty has always been the ones that recieve the most complaints. And not surprisingly.

I dont think anyone should be able to be invisible, like Cot say perhaps simply better function, but more randomness would do the trick, but being able to sneak around without anyone ever seeing you I dont believe in at all. It does nothing to encourage interaction, and I think its interaction this game needs the most.

Here is something to ponder.
Sneak and Hide isnt invis.
You cant fight unseen like vamps could..
Its basically the same function as the MM invis.. You can walk around and not be seen.. Set ambushes et cetra..
Now what the HELL justifies paying tax for a near useless sup guru skill if it has NO effect and can easily be neutralized by munching a herb?

[Cherek]

Is great sneak and hide skills such a good thing to have at all?

In PVP, the stuff people usually complain the most about is the inability to find your opponents, and guilds with some type of invisibilty has always been the ones that recieve the most complaints. And not surprisingly.

I dont think anyone should be able to be invisible, like Cot say perhaps simply better function, but more randomness would do the trick, but being able to sneak around without anyone ever seeing you I dont believe in at all. It does nothing to encourage interaction, and I think its interaction this game needs the most.

Here is something to ponder.
Sneak and Hide isnt invis.
You cant fight unseen like vamps could..
Its basically the same function as the MM invis.. You can walk around and not be seen.. Set ambushes et cetra..
Now what the HELL justifies paying tax for a near useless sup guru skill if it has NO effect and can easily be neutralized by munching a herb?

Near useless? I would not go that far, its definitely possible to sneak up on people for instance. Maybe rangers cant use that so much, but for SS and thieves I bet its still a little useful? Or?

Now I dont disagree with you, I too think that it is something that should be looked into. I am only thinking out loud saying we maybe should not make it "too good" if we change, so it becomes almost invisibility. If you can be too stealthy and the herb counter gets too "nerfed", like +5 like someone said, then it becomes almost impossible for someone with low awareness to detect sneaking and hiding, even with herbs. Then it becomes almost as good as invisibility, and did someone ever enjoy people who can be invisible? Its one of the things people have been the most annoyed about around here since we started to have forums...

In general I think we need things that make people find eachother rather than make people more stealthy... and changes that makes it harder to instantly escape danger.

What would make your skill more useful, without making you totally invisible?

Maybe like Cot said, more randomness? So maybe you can be very stealhy but also risk failing? Or make some timer? Making you super stealthy for a time while "focusing" or something, but then also comes with a cooldown?

Or... what?

[Laurel]

I would not go that far, its definitely possible to sneak up on people for instance. Maybe rangers cant use that so much, but for SS and thieves I bet its still a little useful? Or?

obviously large numbers of Rangers and thieves prove it and especially SS kenders do

[Arcon]

Cherek, there are other ways to get awareness, circlet, shawl and of course imbuement.

How many kenders are there around these days? Thieves? You think that sneaking and hiding is bad for PvP? Lets just take away all thieves/ranger type of guilds since only normal combat should be used in PvP then. I am a ranger and my ONLY offensive power is my layman special, I have low defensive skill(compared to other guilds) but I have sneak and hide, shouldn't that count for something? Shouldn't I be able to try to use it as a tactical advantage?

[Cherek]

Cherek, there are other ways to get awareness, circlet, shawl and of course imbuement.

How many kenders are there around these days? Thieves? You think that sneaking and hiding is bad for PvP? Lets just take away all thieves/ranger type of guilds since only normal combat should be used in PvP then. I am a ranger and my ONLY offensive power is my layman special, I have low defensive skill(compared to other guilds) but I have sneak and hide, shouldn't that count for something? Shouldn't I be able to try to use it as a tactical advantage?

*sigh* No... take a chill pill, and read what I am saying again.

I clearly asked you guys in sneaky guilds HOW you would like to see it improved. I clearly said I think it should be improved too, didnt I? So I dont really understand your questions to me. Yes, yes, and yes. You should be able to have a tactical advantage from it. Who said something else?

What I also said was that just improving sneak and hide and removing counters (the herb is clearly the best one, the others much harder to get), will only result in near invisibility and I dont think more guilds who cannot be detected is a good idea, history has shown invisibility mostly leads to anger from those who end up on the losing side.

Cant we have a good sneak and hide feature that is useful for the stealthy guilds, but still makes it possible to fight them? And yes, I think being able to go undetected by other players IS bad for potential PVP, unless it also has a clear drawback.

I think being able to go super stealthy for a short period of time would be interesting. Or maybe you should be able to stalk people for a long period of time, but as soon as you become detected, or use it to attack, or steal and is detected, etc, you wont be able to go super stealthy again for quite some time. That way you could use it to scout, which makes sense, but once you use it to attack, you cant just disappear again shortly after. That would give you a tactical advantage, and be pretty useful.

It needs to be balanced. I dont think just raising sneak and hide, or removing counters, it will make it more fun. I think it needs to be reworked a little more so the sneaky people can enjoy it, but also add a clear drawback to it so it doesnt become too frustrating for the non-sneaky people.

[Cherek]

I would not go that far, its definitely possible to sneak up on people for instance. Maybe rangers cant use that so much, but for SS and thieves I bet its still a little useful? Or?

obviously large numbers of Rangers and thieves prove it and especially SS kenders do

Actually I think there are few people in those guilds because there are few people in the game, and because they have no real community and no real fighting skills. Most people today value fighting skills before anything else. I dont think insane sneak and hide would give us many more thieves and kenders, they would still lack fighting abilities.

You think it would boost their numbers that much?

As for rangers it seems to me they have been one of the more active guilds the past year or so.

And lets not forget the general "my guild sucks" feeling... Almost all guilds claim their guild sucks on these boards at some point. We've heard about how the BDA and RDA sucks, how the knights suck, how the rangers suck, how the necros (old ones) suck, how the calians suck because the need a team, how pots suck in general, how kenders suck amd how thieves suck, and how mercs suck with their "useless" special attack... and so on.

It seems to me we have a pretty balanced game.

Well seriously, I do think sneak and hide should be changed to be more useful in some way, but I dont think we should introduce anything more in the game that makes any player be able to go totally invisible or near to.

[Greneth]

Cherek, hiding is not the same as the vamps invis. I personally don't see a problem with raising sneak and hide while lowering kuko. Once they initiate combat they come out of hiding so... if they want to wander the donut without being seen let them. Someone wants to find them... gear up. No different then someone wating to take out a mage, certan npc ect.