Need for a change

[Rhaegar]

I have never seeen any such rule, perhaps its hard coded? I've never gone for the red fang. Medallion breaks because calians are a good guild, that doesn't mean we share the same views as a ranger, what we do should be for the general good. So teaming with an army member to hunt knights? No.. but teaming with an army member to kill trolls? Why not.

When I was joining Calians back in the day I was requested by the Council to leave the RF as they were deemed incompatible with Calian ways...

[Greneth]

I don't know the lore behind the rf but unless it says that they want to kill calians, love the kroug or plans to take over calia it shouldn't be a problem.

[Laurel]

Archers are like tricks - they require certain align only for joining
Fallen Huntmasters ftw

[Alexi]

I have never seeen any such rule, perhaps its hard coded? I've never gone for the red fang. Medallion breaks because calians are a good guild, that doesn't mean we share the same views as a ranger, what we do should be for the general good. So teaming with an army member to hunt knights? No.. but teaming with an army member to kill trolls? Why not.

When I was joining Calians back in the day I was requested by the Council to leave the RF as they were deemed incompatible with Calian ways...

Think that points back to my original arguement. Its a player trying to dictate what should be done. There is coding in a guild for a reason, yes we can help improve the themeatics of a guild by roleplay, but there should never be rules flatout against something that doesn't go against coding.

I have a gripe with that in my own guild where it states Dragon Order members shouldn't be shields of the Society, yet we can join Angmar.

[Rhaegar]

I have never seeen any such rule, perhaps its hard coded? I've never gone for the red fang. Medallion breaks because calians are a good guild, that doesn't mean we share the same views as a ranger, what we do should be for the general good. So teaming with an army member to hunt knights? No.. but teaming with an army member to kill trolls? Why not.

When I was joining Calians back in the day I was requested by the Council to leave the RF as they were deemed incompatible with Calian ways...

Think that points back to my original arguement. Its a player trying to dictate what should be done. There is coding in a guild for a reason, yes we can help improve the themeatics of a guild by roleplay, but there should never be rules flatout against something that doesn't go against coding.

I have a gripe with that in my own guild where it states Dragon Order members shouldn't be shields of the Society, yet we can join Angmar.

That's a flaw in ME. What AA _should be_ is not the army but its remnants hiding in the mountains, devoid of leadership after the witchking fled to MM. This way I don't see any problem, Anghoth on the other hand are people dedicated to protection of MM and in this regard DO are more or less like SCoP - they despise all undead, necromancers and the like (although Miclo used to be Anghoth/DO, but it's another player-driven flaw, both on DO and MM part).

[Cherek]

I kinda disagree Alexi:

I do think there should be place for guildleaders to dictate rules for their guilds. I even think its one of the things what makes Genesis different, and in my opinion better, than many similar games.

Most of our conflicts are NOT coded and during the years there has been many odd alliances and seemingly illogical wars. I think thats great. If Calians wanna go bananas and join up with RDA versus another guild they both dislike. Why not?

Coded conflicts and coded rules for all guilds sounds to me like a very boring and static world.

Calians for example has if I remember right had different policies in diffferent eras, sometimes being VERY goodie, sometimes less.

[Targun]

Up till today I thought perhaps I am some kind of extremely radical wing of Genesis players and by no doubts in a vast minority. The funny things I have spoken about the matters brought up by Freya, Ilrahil, Gub on the monks board lately, pretty much pointing exacty at the same things.I feel like I also need to add, that I'm getting really tired with this whole Calian/Neidars neutral guild BS. There is no other word for that I'm afraid. These guilds are not neutral they are good. If Rhynox will be for 10 years writing that Neidars are neutral baecause in some book, someone wrote their god is neutral it's not making them neutral, it makes it jus ridiculous. For 15 or 20 years Neidars were tied only to the good aligned guilds, to my knowledge they cannot use their special abilities with evil alignment. They were always part of the alliance, there has never been an evil neidar among their ranks nor there ever was a member of evil guilds among SB. So lets stick to the facts not somebody's vision that had never been and never will be true. I mean seriously Rhynox- reading the same thing over and over for ten years. Don't you get tired?

Ilrahil counted the goodies/evils abilities in his post. It's a fact that pretty much everything thats good in this game goes to the good aligned guilds exclusively. It's how the 'world' is arranged. These are numbers. Abandon your personal agendas, as you are hurting the game with them. Allorrana I'm not sure if you are aware of what you just said. It's ok to have good aligned guilds overpowered, because if the balance is reached someone might kill them/you? How flawed this kind of reasoning is? All pvp treats went to good aligned guild, all team treats went to them likewise. The best DPS guild is goodie, the best TANK guild is goodie. Where does the word 'balance' fits in? Besides- evil guilds that went on a rampage in the past were Vampires and Morgul Mages only. Both guilds were kind of on their own and it's difficult to consider them an 'EVIL SIDE', because they happened to have wars with evil guilds as well on regular basis. I may even risk a statment more evil aigned chars were killed by them than good aligned. How many people killed Psuchea on the other hand? All of them being evils.

I also cannot understand where this terrible understanding of balance came from. These are numbers and they cannot be discussed. I am not going to fall for some conspiracy theories here... but as much as I try, finding a logical explanation to what has happened with the whole 'balance' project proves to be too difficult for me. My char- Targun- is not evil in the way of acting and he certainly isn't a PvP orientented char. So it's not that it is personal for me in some way. He is a member of a pacifistic guild. The only and I mean only reason that I choose him to lean towards company of evil characters is that there is SO FEW of them on Genesis. I just didn't want to make things worse with yet another tiny stone on the scale. I've got to admit also that I am aware that choosing AA for a monk is not a very good move rp-wise. Still I did it due to the fact that I tend to grind alone and my options as a monk for laymans are extremely limited. So I was trying to go for lesser evil here. Truth to be told the only RP-ok choices for a monk are Minotaurs (you need to change your race though for a cow), Pirates and Minstrels. I somehow try to combine AA and a DO into my roleplay staying pacifistic, but making Targun shy away from helping or teaming with goodies, but that's as far as I go with bending the rules.

There are reasons for not teaming AA/Calians etc. It's called a roleplay. Callians are good oriented guild and a lawful one. For a Calian it should be unacceptable to slay a citizen of a city who obeyed the laws, and protected others. For an AA members on the other hand... He's chaotic/neutral evil. He kills good guys and must stay evil. He has fallen for the promises held by Sauron. He has a bad day so he smashes your head. Therefore, no- by RP standards such teams are not acceptable. Stop bending the rules, because blending the game into one big loving family where everyoen teams with each other will make it utterly boring. RP is too much fun to waste it.

All in all I tend to agree with what Gub said. We need more offensive guilds. We need to increase the difference between tanking/solo/offensive guilds. Team of a tank and any number of pure dps should always be more rewarding than anyone going solo. I do not want my note to grow endlessly in it's volume, as it's impossible to summarize and find reasons for everything that happened throughout Genesis history without simplifications that are wrong by default. Yet I deeply believe that there has been made a serious mistake in distributing powers among the guilds and that is hurting a game as a whole, driving players away for the mud- again look at the numbers, we had a period of 50 players online. If you guys persist on keeping your privilages, nothing good will come out of it. We'll be stuck with 20 players online. What all these privilages mean with such a low playerbase? Nothing.

Edits: Polishing.

[Kas]

Calian shields.....hmm...

[Cherek]

Targun:

I totally agree about your thoughts about neutrality and RP.

But the rest?

It's a fact that pretty much everything thats good in this game goes to the good aligned guilds exclusively

Say what? How is that a fact? I can see no proof on that whatsoever, here or elsewhere. And I am not goodie-biased at all. I think evils have a lot of cool things goodies dont too. And I mentioned them earlier. I am sure goodies wanna portal around, fly around, scare people with dragons and stun people so they cant move...

Just as evils want goodie abilities like move behind, swarm, brawl and rescue.

All pvp treats went to good aligned guild, all team treats went to them likewise.

I think the ogres have the best PvP threat in the realms when it comes to fighters. And ogres are NOT a neutral guild. They ally themselves with evils in almost all cases. MM's are for sure the most dangerous PvP guild. And dont say they are not evil-biased. Yes evils fight evils sometimes but thats not a problem of code. Its the guilds themselves who start fighting. Quite realistic actually, evils do tend to fight amongst themselves? Vampires also had some of the best PvP abilities a long time, and they were clearly evil as well for the most part.

What PvP serious abilities does goodies have?

And yes, goodies have the best tanker-guild, and the best offensive perhaps. But those two guilds also have huge drawbacks. And especially with so few people around a generalist guild like say BDA has an edge over both Neidars and Calians. How often do you see a Neidar and Calian team up? Well, since Irik/Ahith... none? If combined correctly it sounds deadly, but all the times they are not, they are also weak. BDA for instance is "fairly good" all the time.

[Greneth]

Targun:

Call it and think what you will ill be more then happy to post what the hadcoded rules are for you.