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Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 16 Dec 2014 20:26
by Felagund
Mersereau wrote:Felagund wrote:
2. Mercenaries - huge amount of work and over 500 members - but no roleplay whatsoever, no real purpose - mercenary need to be hired to make a living, but these mercenaries do not.
If you need a theme for your guild in order to roleplay, perhaps you just don't have a very good imagination.
That's offensive and off the topic. Thanks for the input anyway.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 16 Dec 2014 21:25
by Draugor
Felagund wrote:Mersereau wrote:Felagund wrote:
2. Mercenaries - huge amount of work and over 500 members - but no roleplay whatsoever, no real purpose - mercenary need to be hired to make a living, but these mercenaries do not.
If you need a theme for your guild in order to roleplay, perhaps you just don't have a very good imagination.
That's offensive and off the topic. Thanks for the input anyway.
No he actually has a point, if you're offended you're just beeing overly sensitive, take a load of
If yer a merc, affiliate with some guild and RP as if you where hired by them, preferably with their blessing
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 16 Dec 2014 22:05
by Snowrose
felagund-
on the side topic of rp -I was not implying you were ic for these posts for the most part i consider forums ooc unless it is being very obviously ic with formal ic sigs and stuff. and if you have rped in ANY mmo, or irc, or java chats half the guilds are "merc", "nobles", "generic evil"... ive seen a ton of people play "dumb", "jerk", "bloodthirsty psyco" as thier entire rp being "pick fights" typically not the style of rp i personly go for but they are still viable character choices.
merging and removal of guilds- when they do remove/merge guilds its never due to bad rp just ask mystocs, vampires, and actors who were all heavy rp before they were shut down. typically they either a problem guild, or a seriously underpopulated guild. since mercs and Army of darkness are probibly 2 of the most populated and balanced guilds in the game they really arent going anywhere. currently if they were going to just shut down a "popular" guild it would probibly be one of the ones not recoded yet.... so you can see how I might be a tad wary of the topic. merging is fine but it takes a lot of work on wizards part.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 16 Dec 2014 22:27
by Cherek
I have always felt the Mercenaries provide a very good opportunity to RP your layman or race guild while still having decent occupational "power".
In my opinion Ogres represents something very unique in Genesis, it's the one guild we have that actually "enforces", and encourages roleplay by code. When you become an ogre you have to act like one no matter if you like it or not. And my experience is that you actually start to think in ogre terms yourself after a while, and being an ogre starts to come even more naturally.
I'd say ogres and mercs are guilds with very good RP potential. And they are also very well coded and in my opinion pretty well balanced too.
_IF_ we were to close guilds the only logical step in my opinion would be to close those who are not recoded/balanced and keep the ones that are. To create a more evenly matched game as a whole. But I dont really know if that's the best idea ever though.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 16 Dec 2014 22:58
by Snowrose
Cherek wrote:
_IF_ we were to close guilds the only logical step in my opinion would be to close those who are not recoded/balanced and keep the ones that are. To create a more evenly matched game as a whole. But I dont really know if that's the best idea ever though.
SEE! felagund i called it!..... so quit poking the wizards asking them to shut down guilds they LIKE. or your going to get the rangers closed and that would be horrible! as its highly possible that if they were closed at this point they may never be reopened at this point. which would crush a lot of career rangers. who play the guild balenced or not because it is how we are defined.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 17 Dec 2014 01:39
by Felagund
Snowrose wrote:Cherek wrote:
_IF_ we were to close guilds the only logical step in my opinion would be to close those who are not recoded/balanced and keep the ones that are. To create a more evenly matched game as a whole. But I dont really know if that's the best idea ever though.
SEE! felagund i called it!..... so quit poking the wizards asking them to shut down guilds they LIKE. or your going to get the rangers closed and that would be horrible! as its highly possible that if they were closed at this point they may never be reopened at this point. which would crush a lot of career rangers. who play the guild balenced or not because it is how we are defined.
Did I ask for a removal of anything? I asked an open question: The question is - do we actually need that many guilds? Please, if there is a logical err in my reasoning - do point it out. If you have a different view, idea - please share. But lets stick to what our adversary actually wrote, not to what we imagine he might think at the time.
I simply try to think outside the box, as I if genesis was a company.
1. It's a project management issue = guilds recode
2. There is a problem with manpower = not enough/too busy wizards
3. There are some running projects not finished/not working properly = guilds/areas needing a recode
4. There are significant assets put into those projects = players, man-hours of wizards
5. Someone comes with this brilliant idea to start few new projects = new guilds!
What would responsible manager do in such situation?
That's my point. I'm pretty sure I made it clear in my first note.
And Chrk - you actually provided (unwillingly) a very good example for my thesis.
You wrote:
"I have always felt the Mercenaries provide a very good opportunity to RP your layman or race guild while still having decent occupational "power". " - so it's a guild people join to have some power to back their roleplay as member of race or layman guild. That's the purpose of mercenaries - add a decent power to roleplay from other guilds.
And as to Mrsr argument, I still find it offensive. He implies I have not very good imagination with no ground for it. Furthermore, he uses false argument (if you need a theme for your guild in order to roleplay) that wasn't in my posts nor couldn't be deduced from my reasoning. So it's not only offensive (personal argument) but it's also considered a dirty trick in discussion (basing argument on false/nonexistent statements of adversary).
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 17 Dec 2014 02:09
by Snowrose
Felagund wrote:
Did I ask for a removal of anything?
Felagund wrote:
On the other hand, the factor is a number of guilds that need to be recoded. The question is - do we actually need that many guilds? I will give some examples:
1. RDA/BDA - could be one guild with weapon of choice. Why not? Half of work needed. Can have two generals - red/blue wing?
2. Mercenaries - huge amount of work and over 500 members - but no roleplay whatsoever, no real purpose - mercenary need to be hired to make a living, but these mercenaries do not.
3. Army of Darkness - excuse me, but I cannot find any reason for existence of guild that is so anti-roleplay (ME BIG OGRE, ME SMASH) in a game that is based on roleplay (or should be).
Three guilds out - 3 times THIS HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK NEEDED TO RECODE out. Simple.
Just my 2 cc's - don't get mad at me just because you think differently
*I am not a coder, so what seems small, may be in fact a big change.
it sounded like you were recomendeding they cut these guilds out rather than recode them but i beleave all of THESE examples alreadfy have been recoded and are working as expected. very popular, and cause very few issues ooc.
anyhow all of this is kinda of diverting/hyjacking this thread's original thesis which is.
maybe do some quick fixes to guilds that people do not have time manpower
to actually recode but really need some fixes.
so we should focus on stuff that could be fixed easily. like guild powers not working in areas (that was a cool point. )and other stuff that probibly could be fixed easilly without having to go into "balance" issues.
This thread is not about what guilds have good/bad rp or that there are to many guilds. because closing down any guild that has a lot of people will only cause people to ragequit. just because you dislike them does not make them bad. You could have made a new topic for this or found other threads discussing those issues specifically.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 17 Dec 2014 04:53
by Mersereau
Oh, I can be much more offensive than that.
Idiot's big wall of text wrote:Snowrose wrote:Cherek wrote:
_IF_ we were to close guilds the only logical step in my opinion would be to close those who are not recoded/balanced and keep the ones that are. To create a more evenly matched game as a whole. But I dont really know if that's the best idea ever though.
SEE! felagund i called it!..... so quit poking the wizards asking them to shut down guilds they LIKE. or your going to get the rangers closed and that would be horrible! as its highly possible that if they were closed at this point they may never be reopened at this point. which would crush a lot of career rangers. who play the guild balenced or not because it is how we are defined.
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And as to Mrsr argument, I still find it offensive. He implies I have not very good imagination with no ground for it. Furthermore, he uses false argument (if you need a theme for your guild in order to roleplay) that wasn't in my posts nor couldn't be deduced from my reasoning. So it's not only offensive (personal argument) but it's also considered a dirty trick in discussion (basing argument on false/nonexistent statements of adversary).
You're the one claiming there is no RP for the Mercenaries. I claim that while there may not be a clear hard core theme to the guild, that's not a lack of roleplay. If anything it provides more opportunity to roleplay. Claiming a guild has no roleplay is idiotic and wrong.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 17 Dec 2014 15:05
by Cherek
Calm down guys and girls. No need to start throwing insults around.
Snowrose: I think Middle Earth would be very empty without the rangers. I was not saying any guild is or should close, just replying to the idea of closing recoded and pretty well balanced guilds seems a bit illogical, when there's unrecoded and poorly balanced guilds around. I am just expressing my own thoughts though, I am not the one to decide whether guilds should close or open etc. My mission is to get more players, I leave the other decisions to someone else.
Felagund: I do get what you're saying, the discussion has been up many times, and I have even suggesting closing some guilds myself in the past. Considering the amount of players we have currently, and assuming we want a social game where people interact a lot, I think the game is generally too big. In terms of everything. But as I have said before, I think it's a better idea to try to add more players, which would solve many of our issues, than it would be to change a ton of stuff to make the game fit the number of players. So far we have not been very successful in that though, so it's definitely worth always discussing what can be done to make the game more fun and social.
Re: Guild quickfix
Posted: 17 Dec 2014 16:27
by Snowrose
temp branch merges has happened to rangers before. I myself started in the ROG branch, Ive always thought of myself as more of a healy/gathery/supporty ranger than a brawly fighty ranger or a sneaky ranger. would be nice if there was one branch with 3 specialty and wepon choices , the branch idea is awsome conceptually as its easy to expand or contract based on players involved.
making it easier to join some guilds that have a really low player count could help balance player numbers and encourage more rp to boot cause if a character is in the guild that fits they are much more likly to rp and not settle with a guild they dislike just because it is easier to join. Cause when rp is conserned players that feel thier own theme can make or break a guild theme even if the guild by itself seems generic.