Genesis Forums

the only viable whine is about non-recoded guilds - the rest is purely lame

Laurel wrote:those who don't have big chars are complaining about those who have? again ...

I have never complained about any character...ever. I simply don't believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely.

Laurel wrote:what is your issue actually? that you can't kill them, or that they don't like you, or that they don't support you (with gear, exp, whatever)?

The answers to these questions are No, No and No...I simply don't believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely.

Laurel wrote:if you can't kill them - trust me, you wouldn't be able to kill Saya, Freya, Ilrahil, Lindros, Poet (or whatever his char name is now) etc. even if you were their size ... if they were/are as prepared as they usually were/are when there was/is any danger around them

You are absolutely correct. I could never compete with their PvP skill. Killing other players is not something I generally want to do however so this is not a problem for me. I simply don't believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely.

Laurel wrote:if they don't like you - tough luck! stats won't change that; Xar had general disrespect for Laurel for years of sharing the same guild with her

I have never had any problems with any other characters in the game as far as I know. I have never had any issue getting people to help/like/accept/support me when I felt that was important. In fact much of the time I never had to ask. Most of the time I spent playing Genesis was solo because that's what I like. Unrelated to this...I simply don't believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely.

Laurel wrote:if they don't support you - tough luck! get them to like you, so they will support you - stats won't change that

Again...I have never had any problems with any other characters in the game as far as I know. I have never had any issue getting people to help/like/accept/support me when I felt that was important. In fact much of the time I never had to ask. Most of the time I spent playing Genesis was solo because that's what I like. Unrelated to this...I simply don't believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely.

Laurel wrote:once again: END GAME CONTENT is NOT supposed to be available to everyone ... it's not like every WoW/BFBC2/Aion/LeagueOfLegends player is supposed to acquire all achievments those games offer

Actually end game content IS supposed to available to everyone otherwise it wouldn't be part of the game. If I am playing Genesis and there is something I want that is not available to me then why would I play Genesis...that just wouldn't make sense. I think what you meant to say is that not everyone reaches the level necessary to access end game content. Its available to them but only if they accomplish what is necessary to access it.

The problem I have with end game content being growth is that in Genesis growth is not something that happens at the end of the game...it IS the game. People refer to it as end game content but its what they have been doing all along and is integral to how a character is played. It isn't end game content, its the main content of the game. Unlimited growth is a fundamentally flawed game design and is Genesis is failing because of it. That's what my problem is.

However...Gorboth has said very clearly it is his opinion a stat cap at this time would not not be in the best interest of the game. I don't agree but I understand his reasoning. So for now I am content to wait and see and hope I am wrong and that Genesis flourishes.

Alorrana wrote:I respect your oppinions on this matter.. But then why just not say Myths cant Pfight..? it would keep the fighting base around legend sizes, and those who dosnt want to fight can just grow to myths and retire with rp and grinding and playing their game at own will.. Myths cant get attacked by players, and they cant attack players.. that would work as a pvp cap insted of a stat cap.

I think PvP is only part of the problem. The fact that characters have unlimited growth pressures players to spend their time doing something that maybe they don't want to do. You are right in that what I suggest is really only a PvP cap but I think this is true only in the short term. That is, the immediate effect of what I suggest is to cap PvP, but if you consider the game 5 to 10 years from now this might have a greater range of benefits. For example:

#In the future there would exist a cluster of characters whose size is constant and is at a level new characters would feel it is reasonable to try to attain.
#This group of characters would not have to worry about spending time growing but could devote their gaming time to something else like RP, Guild leadership, equipment hunting, or even PvP/Guild wars.
#Older characters might be more inclined to play in an attempt to reach the cap knowing they then wouldn't have to worry about being killed by larger characters.
#Super large characters would still be beneficial to guilds as equipment gatherers and a check against other super large characters in other guilds.

#SUPER LARGE CHARACTERS WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO GROW AS BIG AS THE WANT!!!!

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread bringing back mega bosses that took teams to kill. Lilith was exploring this idea in Terel mainly with the reopening of Mergula, which after a few updates takes minimally 2 people to take down and you must be very prepared for that to happen, or know a good tactic. I know she was also hoping to reopen Benton and add a few new items to him, but make him impossible to solo. I really liked these ideas because it offered challenges to the game and brought back a sense of nostalgia for players 10+ years old who took them on way back when. I'd like to see more NPC's like this added.

As to a stat cap... well I won't even bite the bit and make a comment as I think most of the forum knows my opinion on it.

Greywolf wrote:Actually end game content IS supposed to available to everyone

POSSIBLE to reach - yes
(easily) available - no

I have yet to see a multiplayer game where a casual gamer can reach as much as a hard-core gamer within the same time-frame

Laurel wrote:

Greywolf wrote:Actually end game content IS supposed to available to everyone

POSSIBLE to reach - yes
(easily) available - no

I have yet to see a multiplayer game where a casual gamer can reach as much as a hard-core gamer within the same time-frame

Yes - I agree 100% with this. I think where we might see things differently is just how hard the game needs to be and in what ways it needs to be hard...and perhaps what hard actually means.

Greywolf wrote:what hard actually means

Alorrana - please show this gentleman your tessto?

I mean show - not shove!

hehe

Just want to bring in my two cc:
Stat caps in general sucks! I've played several muds with caps (Nanny, Rom2, Moosehead, Burning,...) and when people reach the cap they normally lose interest and move on. Some just create a new char and repeat the process. Caps doesn't take focus off grinding - it makes most people grind a lot harder - they have a set goal and want to reach it.
And once there they don't know what to do...

That being said, it can actually work, if you have a secondary goal. One mud worked perfectly with cap. It was heavily PvP oriented. Experienced people could get a char maxed in 100 hours (one week), and then they joined one of the fractions and started hunting players from other fractions. So if you get a working PvP system, maybe a cap for PvP:ers will actually work.

But DON'T cap people who don't want it. Even if I might never reach the cap, I don't want it hovering by the horizon wherever I look. This softcap you have is just fine. I don't mind if the next step in strength takes a hundred balrogs to kill, or ten thousand, as long as it is actually, theoretically possible to get there.

I do believe unlimited growth is viable end game content that is sustainable indefinitely!
Ok, as you said, Greywolf, it is per definition not an end game content. But it's also not a "flawed game design" as you would have it. Growth is a major part of (almost) every mud, and things would be boring indeed without it. Capping it is for many players like saying "You can play here for a while, but after that you're not welcome unless you ditch your char and start a new one."
To pull things further, imagine ditching xp altogether. When you start playing you get your set stats and that's what you have. Now you can join a guild, roleplay, gather eq, have wars etc, but your stats will never change. If you can enjoy this (it _is_ possible, but takes a certain kind of players and specific environments), then a stat cap can work fine.

Since I'm not much interested in PvP, I really don't mind an option to cap yourself in order to do it. Might actually even be a good solution. Just let me be able to see the infinity I will never manage to reach but always, always get closer to.

I couldn't agree more with Booger.