Who List

[Booger]

It's been suggested several times before that if you don't like the list, don't use it, and the reply is always that others can still use it against me. This suggestion should be obvious, but I really don't remember seing it:
You chose if you want the old list or the new one:
If you chose the old list, you can't see people you don't remember, and people who don't remember you can't see you.
If you chose the new list, you can see everyone you remember, plus everyone who has chosen to see the new list.

Bonuses:
* People wanting to be incognito can be so.
* People wanting to see everyone can at least see a lot more than just the ones they remembered.
* New players won't see everyone but will still see quite a number of people.
Drawbacks:
* ?

You need to let people have a chance to change, but to not make it too abusable, so I suggest to make it possible to change ony once per reboot.
Since this is not really a character-feature, but an ideological one made by the user, any choice made ought to apply for all characters owned by that person (you do have some way of connecting people owned by the same user, right?).
Yes, you can still abuse it by creating a new char wihich has the "new list" choice, to log on and see who's online. And I don't have any good suggestion on how to stop such things except to say it's just SO lame to do that.

Also, I have read complaints about the possibility to scry(?) people you don't have remembered but know are online, and maybe other things too...
That's a BUG and should be reported. And since it can be a game-ruining bug, you should make a fuss about it until it gets fixed, or demand that some immortal states that this is actually how they want it to work. If you don't report bugs, don't complain that they exist or don't get fixed.
And the fact that you've reported oh so many bugs and none got fixed is no excuse for complaining about this one. Report ALL bugs, and expect the important ones to get fixed (and forget about the unimportant ones - they'll hopefully get fixed eventually).

[Laurel]

Also, I have read complaints about the possibility to scry(?) people you don't have remembered but know are online, and maybe other things too...
That's a BUG and should be reported. And since it can be a game-ruining bug, you should make a fuss about it until it gets fixed, or demand that some immortal states that this is actually how they want it to work. If you don't report bugs, don't complain that they exist or don't get fixed.

both torque and necro scry work this way (not the Herald's afaik) ... I'd guess that's intended use

[Arcon]

Right now there is nothing I can do to make a necro not scry me.
I thought from the beginning that if I did not want to see the "new" who list, others wouldn't see me either, so I didn't use it for several months. But then, after some tests I noticed that it didn't matter, which is very strange.

This with letting people be idle for days with triggers is just to fool the players that there are more people then there really are. You can see their name, but you can't last them, so you might think " wow there are a lot of people online today!" but many of them are just idle in their guild.

[Cherek]

Draugor: People stopped playing because of the change to the who-list?

Really? Who did? That person told you "I wont be playing unless the who-list is changed back?" How many told you this?

I never understood it being such a big deal...

And about scrying... well yeah... some guilds have always been able to scry people without remembering them. And in the past people used to ask their friends if X or Y was online, and usually eventually get the introductions of their enemies. And knights usually introduce to anyone anyway? Or are knights sneaking around in darkness these days?

I just find it odd that this who-list somehow would make you NOT play? I mean we barely have any pfighting at all, or anything... why do people so badly want to stay incognito?

[Draugor]

Draugor: People stopped playing because of the change to the who-list?

Really? Who did? That person told you "I wont be playing unless the who-list is changed back?" How many told you this?

I never understood it being such a big deal...

And about scrying... well yeah... some guilds have always been able to scry people without remembering them. And in the past people used to ask their friends if X or Y was online, and usually eventually get the introductions of their enemies. And knights usually introduce to anyone anyway? Or are knights sneaking around in darkness these days?

I just find it odd that this who-list somehow would make you NOT play? I mean we barely have any pfighting at all, or anything... why do people so badly want to stay incognito?

I can imagine some people left due to it, people getting sick of that an intro doesent mean shit anymore etc, might aswell remove the intro command

[Greneth]

I just find it odd that this who-list somehow would make you NOT play? I mean we barely have any pfighting at all, or anything... why do people so badly want to stay incognito?

Just because it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it hasn't happened and some people like playing the mysterious character. Some thieves may like to steal without their name being so easily found since anyone can see sup sneak/hide+ these days. A guild leader with alot of heat on them may not want everyone knowing when they are awake 24/7, or perhaps instead of 10 people logging in just to mail them from a second character they may actually want to play the game. Some people may want to PvP but dont wish to attack people since they will just get their seconds and find some bullshit excuse on why they can now harass someone. Maybe few people know what timezone a certain player is awake that they have been trying to get back for that gank the other day but yet everytime they log in the person runs back to their guild hall.

I can still think of several more.

[Booger]

No comments on the actual suggestion... That would mean it's either flawless or that it sucks so bad you're not even bothering to explain why it sucks.
Being me, I'm gonna assume it's flawless. So let's ask the immortals to fix the code, and we can all stop arguing about why the new/old who lists suck so much, close this thread and start playing again

[Makfly]

The RMC have almost the same ability, and nobody ever complained about that...

And for people quitting the game due to the change in the who list - Come on, just because you can imagine that someone would quit over it, doesn't mean it's isn't completely far fetched that it would ever happen.

The only ones that gets dealt a disadvantage by going back to the old who list, are those not high in the RMC and without friends on MSN. In the past, there was very few secrets - These days with the tiny playerbase, there are even fewer / virtually none.

[Cherek]

Draugor/Greneth: Well I can probably think up hundreds of reasons why people "might" have left the game... are we going to make hundreds of changes based on "someone might have left the game for this". I think we would need some facts here saying a bunch of people got so fed up with the new who list and felt the game was unplayable so they dont play anymore, and let them explain to us why. Then you might have a case.

All in all I think this is a very small detail in a very large game that really doesnt change much in the big picture. Allthough me personally I think it provides something positive for the possible truly new player to this world. And thats good enough for me. If it makes a few old ones grumpy I think they can be grumpy.

I think if we ever get a larger population we might consider adding an option to not be seen on the who list, but for now with about 10 or so active players in average I really dont see a use for it. Sneaking around incognito when there is barely nobody else awake to see you awake sounds a bit silly to me and all the "mights and maybes" seems to me like something based in an older version of the game. Does anyone actually hide or refuse to leave a guild hall these days? Is the world that dangerous? And really, its not like people wont find out why you are anyway... if people really want to harass you THAT badly you as describe then they will find a way.

[Draugor]

An easy way to solve it is to make a command that makes you not visable on the who list, I for one dont want people other than those I have chosen to intro to to know that I am in.
I KNOW alot of people dont want to be show on the "people you dont know are". Newbies have nlist, or make the names that ya dont know show as ***** instead or just unknown. As I said, you might aswell remove the intro option, cause the only thing it does atm if I dont intro is make you type goblin instead of draugor when attacking and you cant see my size, the guilds are easy to figure out.