Morgul Mage Discussion - power, grinding, balance

[Alexi]

So you compare A mage with a team of warriors?:)

I think it evens out yes, for 1 round of trolls. Because once that is done those warriors will run off and do Qual, Neraka, Centaurs, Kalaman, Terel, and come back for the Mithas trolls on the reset. That Mage will go back to prepping for the next time they want to do a round of trolls.

[Greneth]

Our relative strength also comes with several quite substantial burdens and penalties that stretches beyond death, that is forever present until the day we are utterly destroyed, from the lowest apprentice to the King of Minas Morgul himself. They are not unlike the compromise of the Calians for superb dps in teams in exchange for lower dps solo, without me spilling details.

A fun fact: More mages have died recently by their own hands, than they have slain enemies.

The service to the Eye is quite "entropic" in nature, so you have to give/sacrifice a truckload in order to receive anything at all.

And Genesis is a game where people complain about having to spend the extra effort because an NPC was upgraded

Though it really pains me to defend them in any way..

A few pages back about mages and PVP... I believe it was Hektor I was talking to few months ago and when he said this I was too busy whining to think about it. But just how many times does a player get the drop on a mage compared to mages getting the drop on them? And just how many times is a player fully geared to protect themselves from a Mage compared to a Mage prepared to combat the prey?

Don't get me wrong I think the burst damage they get is a bit ridiculous because it doesn't matter how much you sacrifice or pay in taxes high burst DPS like that is just going to cause problems all around, specially when they can have the defence of our best fighters in game geared like a shit brick house. But 9/10 times they are more prepared and 4-5 steps ahead of you. Most players when they go out aren't thinking "Ok so what do I need incase a Mage attacks" it's more along the lines of "That fucker has the GT that means ill have to sharpen my shit while grinding and I dont think I can do Haradrims now.."

Then comes the fight and once they have the drop on you while your busy comprehending that a Mage is attacking you they are already beginning their spell combo. Now your playing defence and they are attacking ruthlessly, then because of the burst damage and their high defence your hp starts to rapidly drop and theirs not so much so you begin to panic and try to think of escape routes while forgetting about keeping your potions/herbs going. Then you realize you havent been taking them and now your trying to multi-task like crazy and the panic setting in more and more which causes you to royally fuck up and have a nice chat with lars.

Not everyone is like this, more experienced PVPer of course is use to this but I think this is how it goes for most people or at least parts of it.

[Laurel]

more or less my point indeed, Greneth

[Celephias]

I think to get your answer re: grinding all you need to do is look at the rankings. If we were that good, we'd own those lists. Its not like mages aren't putting in the time.

We are, however, kicking the crap out "The Craftsmen"

For anyone with real experience or information (versus conjecture and misinformation), mages (at least morgul mages) can't keep up grinding.

As for "sneaking" guilds (per Laurel), I don't have enough data to comment. The only real data point I have is Xar, who seems to be very large for being in an 'impotent' guild. I won't speculate as to how or why or rant about the injustice of his achievement , simply observing that somehow he managed to get very big and kill formidable foes as a Ranger.

Greneth - I appreciate your post. I may not agree with all of it, but its well-reasoned. The issue about having defence as good as anyone is not quite right. We can't train defensive skills that high. A big flaw in Gen is that everything in a room is 'equidistant'. Under normal circumstances a mage would keep his distance (or try to) to ply his magic - this isn't possible in Gen. That means that there has to be some way for a mage to stay in the room long enough to fight while being hit at. At the base level for me, that is the requirement. The only way to achieve it these days is to get the best gear possible. I have experimented with lesser gear and I will tell you that the effects are quite dramatic (probably not surprising) - I take a whooping (see point about defensive skills). Also, remember that we need to really improve all six stats to be effective, so my physicals compared to another myth aren't even close I would imagine. If there's another solution to the "keeping my distance" issue, I'm all for it. I would prefer not to be dressed up like a fighter anyway. This of course doesn't necessarily help with grinding at all, but its something to consider.

As an aside, if there was a different, effective way of gaining exp besides grinding, but on par with it in terms of benefit (or close, not the current "general" stuff) and potential rewards, I would be all for it.

[Chanele]

My personal oppinion is mages/clerics should be more like calians, depended on a tank/shield. Big burst damage, will be able to take out big foes singlehandled because of high damage output in short period of time. But like calians they cant grind multiply foes, casting should get disrupted when you're hit afterall. Maybe that kind of gameplay is booring but thats how I pucture a caster. With todays imbuements mages/clerics can have has high defence stats as any warrior and the balance is messed up.

Petros says BDA is the best guild for soloxp (Among balanced guilds) but who wants that? I surely dont. I rather have enhancing teamabilities that actually make you become stronger in team. I hate grinding alone its booring as hell. All guilds should be an asset in a team, right now DAs becomes weaker in team especially when teaming with other DAs since some of the specials dont stack.

Celephias:
I hardly see any Mages around, occasionally there are dark rooms in Kalaman etc and I assume you are there but rarely any interaction. Maybe you are out teaming with people and just ignoring my character?;). This is abit strange since there are 3-4 very active mages atleast on who list. Shields should have an importent meaning not just a cool RP oppurtunities. Thats where mages should be more like "Calians" and have to rely on other people.

[Zar]

I think MM tanking abilities can be altered by following way:
Mages/clerics should be introduced penalty while wearing:
- heavy armours (like platemails/scales/chainmails). if worn - casting time doubled.
- bracers/gauntlets: casting time *= 1.5
- helm: hit rate rate of spell /= 1.5 due to difficulties in vision.

Maybe limitation must be on weight on specific items (i.e. bodyarmour must be lighter that 6 kg) or on total armours worn.

This way we won't alter mages abilities to tank totally, but they sacrifice offensive power while tanking. It will force them to seek for more teamplay.

Maybe with penalties on casting time, it will be nice to have guild quests to improve it a bit or items/imbuements that will increase it.

Zar

PS. Idea is not mine. it is taken from other mud where mages are not allowed anything except cloak, rings and amulets.

[Cherek]

I think to get your answer re: grinding all you need to do is look at the rankings. If we were that good, we'd own those lists. Its not like mages aren't putting in the time.

The killing machines of the week
1. Sojiro
2. Fluffy
3. Seren
4. Zauhak

None of the mages are listed on the "habitues" list either so they cant have been playing extremely much. So according to this it does seem like you are doing pretty well in grinding. I dont know if the two mages have teamed up to get this high, but my _guess_ is they went mostly solo.

[Greneth]

I think to get your answer re: grinding all you need to do is look at the rankings. If we were that good, we'd own those lists. Its not like mages aren't putting in the time.

The killing machines of the week
1. Sojiro
2. Fluffy
3. Seren
4. Zauhak

None of the mages are listed on the "habitues" list either so they cant have been playing extremely much. So according to this it does seem like you are doing pretty well in grinding. I dont know if the two mages have teamed up to get this high, but my _guess_ is they went mostly solo.

In their Defence Fluffy went from a Myth to Champ so his recovery is off the charts right now, not to mention he is probably one of the few smarter Magical Users in the game that used a physical class choosing mentals as a second so his ability to grind is naturally going to be higher. I have no idea about Zauhak though.

[Laurel]

Seren was repeatedly accused of botting on this forum and was also on recovery in one of the best guilds for exp-grinding ... a MM without a really high rank and with a race-choice suited rather for melee instead of casters was better ...
btw. I love Fluffy for various reasons

[OgreToyBoy]

Laureö I like oyu and don'w want you to like get angry but its melee.. not malee.