Statcap

[Laurel]

afaik Irk is not even remotely close to many other old chars in terms of "years spent", but he still managed to out-grow a significant number of old farts ... same with Zin and his toons or even Saya/Freya like chars ... I miss Treo!
just grow in a relatively safe (inagressive) guild and you can grind your ass off for quite a few months = quite big myth

don't come with that crap about "you will never reach them" - it's simply not true
if you fail on that topic it doesn't mean others do as well ...

So.. tell me, who can hold a candle to Xar or will be able to long as he keeps playing?

Thats right... no one in game is even remotely close, but your completely right! How stupid of me and my failing ways!

And thus you just proved my point, how long has Irk been going at it? And he still is below characters that aren't even playing anymore and havent in a few years? How far below Xar was Saya I wonder?

This way of gaming is highly unattractive to new players who play for a bit then realize they will never be able to reach that limit without many many years of time and effort. Hell even in most MMO RPG's it takes less then a year to hit the top level most being a few months, after that its based upon your pvp stats, wealth, guild status, items.

Your stuck in the past which is unfortunate for a game that needs to keep whats attractive and move ahead with the times to keep new players.

how much do you know about Xar's PvP encounters with the biggies out there? you mention Saya - what do you know about their battles?

Laurel was always way smaller then Saya/Freya/Bofur/etc. (no - never even remotely close to myth) and still - they decided either to kill off her even smaller friends or required the old goblin lord room (with block) to succeed; I count that as a win against the clearly most PvP focused bunch ever in this game

I remember a certain Nazgul became one as apprentice (in old system)? was he then less feared when he grew a little then he would be when he reached old champion? nope

you can be a smallfry and still compete in the PvP battles with biggies - just learn how to do it and stop whining

arguments about doing "half the quests" (please ... take my wife ...) and failing to grind with a monk/ranger are also ... out of the butt to be honest
or do you think any of the biggies stopped questing with "half of the quests" done?
how many chars did Zin create in the last few years that reached myth - 3? 4? more?

sheeeeesh, dudes ... again - only because YOU fail to achieve something doesn't mean it's impossible
maybe it's just NOT FOR YOU (just like endless grinding macros are not for me)

when you go play WoW noone tells you that you are EVER gonna kill the real end-content! actually there is only VERY few that can do it before a new expansion comes out and old end-content is outdated
same with Aion
same with PvP in those games

all you said so far is:
I want to reach the same as others did, but I can't within a few weeks so take away from them what I can't reach

I vote for stat-cap at the level of 400 (for each stat) - I wonder why none of you would be satisfied

[Ilrahil]

I for some reason... that I don't entirely or remotely want to... agree with Laurel 100%.

Cat's out of the bag, stat cap would cause more problems now with the current player base than it would cause good things to happen.

Stop asking for it, the day it happens, while I might personally not stop playing, will cause us to lose a huge amount of the playerbase.

[Greywolf]

arguments about doing "half the quests" (please ... take my wife ...) and failing to grind with a monk/ranger are also ... out of the butt to be honest
or do you think any of the biggies stopped questing with "half of the quests" done?
how many chars did Zin create in the last few years that reached myth - 3? 4? more?...

...all you said so far is:
I want to reach the same as others did, but I can't within a few weeks so take away from them what I can't reach

I vote for stat-cap at the level of 400 (for each stat) - I wonder why none of you would be satisfied

Laurel - I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me but I'll try to clarify what I was I saying.

The fact that my characters have never been bigger then small hero has nothing to do with the game. It is 100% my fault. I only did half the quests, I never, until recently, joined a guild with a lot of grinding ability, and I am always dying for stupid reasons. Thats why I am still small and I am not using it as any kind of excuse because I know I could be a lot bigger if I played differently. First I would need to get off my ass and do a lot more quests...then maybe get someone to teach me how to create some grinding macros Ok, maybe not the macro part, but I would have to do a lot of grinding.

I thought the game needed a size cap 10 years ago for the same reason I do today. Players who keep getting bigger and bigger are bad for the game. It was bad for the game 10 years ago, it is bad for the game today, and it will be bad for the game in another 10 years. It is entirely irrelevant to me, my charcters, or whether I play or don't play.

[Greywolf]

I for some reason... that I don't entirely or remotely want to... agree with Laurel 100%.

Cat's out of the bag, stat cap would cause more problems now with the current player base than it would cause good things to happen.

Stop asking for it, the day it happens, while I might personally not stop playing, will cause us to lose a huge amount of the playerbase.

What is so wrong about people deciding not to play genesis? Everyone will eventually stop playing. The point is how do we encourage new people to play. I think not having a stat cap is a serious problem for new players. I think not having a straightforward growth system is a serious problem for new players and I think making growth dependent on quests is a serious problem for new players. I think these three things, more then any others, make genesis undesirable to the vast majority of people who might otherwise play.

The players who are playing today will leave someday regardless of what is done, so why not take a bit of a risk and try to create a game that new people might actually want to play.

[Laurel]

my initial question when I start to play any game wouldn't be "can I reach EVRYTHING the majors of this game reached?" but "can I participate in some fun end-game content in a while?"

this end-game content for my char for now are best gear in game, defeating biggest foes in game (no, never took part in Balroging tho ...), battling other not-so-small players
this has NOTHING to do with Xar's stats or the aim to be Xar2 myself

[Sharn]

The statcap does not solve the problem of size difference.
Allright, lets suppose, that Xar wont grow anymore.
I am champion and I am years behind him. I doubt I could ever "catch" him even if he would not grow anymore.

This is a major flaw in the statcap idea.
I am champion and I am years behind the most experienced players.
How does the statcap improve the situation for new players?
New players are still few years behind me.

[Greywolf]

The statcap does not solve the problem of size difference.
Allright, lets suppose, that Xar wont grow anymore.
I am champion and I am years behind him. I doubt I could ever "catch" him even if he would not grow anymore.

This is a major flaw in the statcap idea.
I am champion and I am years behind the most experienced players.
How does the statcap improve the situation for new players?
New players are still few years behind me.

You're right. The game also needs a more straightforward growth system that allows a new player to reach the size cap in a reasonable amount of time. I posted some ideas about this earlier in the thread. I don't think a size cap solves anything by itself but I think it's a necessary step.

[Tarax the Terrible]

No cap. Diminishing returns.

[Maizara]

afaik Irk is not even remotely close to many other old chars in terms of "years spent", but he still managed to out-grow a significant number of old farts ... same with Zin and his toons or even Saya/Freya like chars ... I miss Treo!
just grow in a relatively safe (inagressive) guild and you can grind your ass off for quite a few months = quite big myth

don't come with that crap about "you will never reach them" - it's simply not true
if you fail on that topic it doesn't mean others do as well ...

So.. tell me, who can hold a candle to Xar or will be able to long as he keeps playing?

Thats right... no one in game is even remotely close, but your completely right! How stupid of me and my failing ways!

And thus you just proved my point, how long has Irk been going at it? And he still is below characters that aren't even playing anymore and havent in a few years? How far below Xar was Saya I wonder?

This way of gaming is highly unattractive to new players who play for a bit then realize they will never be able to reach that limit without many many years of time and effort. Hell even in most MMO RPG's it takes less then a year to hit the top level most being a few months, after that its based upon your pvp stats, wealth, guild status, items.

Your stuck in the past which is unfortunate for a game that needs to keep whats attractive and move ahead with the times to keep new players.

how much do you know about Xar's PvP encounters with the biggies out there? you mention Saya - what do you know about their battles?

Laurel was always way smaller then Saya/Freya/Bofur/etc. (no - never even remotely close to myth) and still - they decided either to kill off her even smaller friends or required the old goblin lord room (with block) to succeed; I count that as a win against the clearly most PvP focused bunch ever in this game

I remember a certain Nazgul became one as apprentice (in old system)? was he then less feared when he grew a little then he would be when he reached old champion? nope

you can be a smallfry and still compete in the PvP battles with biggies - just learn how to do it and stop whining

arguments about doing "half the quests" (please ... take my wife ...) and failing to grind with a monk/ranger are also ... out of the butt to be honest
or do you think any of the biggies stopped questing with "half of the quests" done?
how many chars did Zin create in the last few years that reached myth - 3? 4? more?

sheeeeesh, dudes ... again - only because YOU fail to achieve something doesn't mean it's impossible
maybe it's just NOT FOR YOU (just like endless grinding macros are not for me)

when you go play WoW noone tells you that you are EVER gonna kill the real end-content! actually there is only VERY few that can do it before a new expansion comes out and old end-content is outdated
same with Aion
same with PvP in those games

all you said so far is:
I want to reach the same as others did, but I can't within a few weeks so take away from them what I can't reach

I vote for stat-cap at the level of 400 (for each stat) - I wonder why none of you would be satisfied

It's really hard to even reply to you without wanting to turn the thread into a flame war, in fact most of your posts leave that desire, I even ignored your first couple.

Im sorry that I gave you the impression I was referring to PvP... because I wasn't. No one was whining we were discussing, quit being an ass and turn the ego down. No one gives two shits whether Saya and Co came on your back or in your ass.

Most people aren't Zin nor will they ever be so thats a mute point. Finally based on your WoW and Aion statement you must have been one of those that failed and couldn't hack it in those games, otherwise you wouldn't be making that statement as quite a few people actually do complete everything then wait months before new things come out... I guess those are just another thing that just isn't for you.

Basically all you have said is:

I really don't care about the stat cap I just want to make sure that when I die by someone bigger and they use their brain rather then just outright attack me anywhere I can use that as an excuse as to why I died and why I would count that as a win when I lost.

I vote for you to stop being a douche fuck and step off your high horse and maybe the next time you disagree with people explain your reasoning rather then trying to inflate your head on the forums and whine that it isn't fair for the big guys while insulting people by telling them "You Fail".

[Laurel]

(...)It's really hard to even reply to you without wanting to turn the thread into a flame war, in fact most of your posts leave that desire, I even ignored your first couple.

hmm, then what's the below statement then?

No one gives two shits whether Saya and Co came on your back or in your ass.

Most people aren't Zin nor will they ever be so thats a mute point.

Is it "I acknowledge the superiority of Zin's player skills/knowledge/experience over mine in terms of creating great fighter chars" statement, or rather going for his personality here? Because I was refering to his skills and focus when it comes to creating and playing char after char that outgrows the majority of the active population. Whatever this guys' personality is (and it's not a relevant topic here) - his skills/focus/knowledge makes him a skilled player.
The issue if such players contribute to the game or not is also not the point of this discussion afaik, because that's also mentality based while char creation/playing is skills based. In all your points you want to cancel out skills that others have, while NOT promoting the mentality that's required to really contribute. That's not the way to go imo.

Finally based on your WoW and Aion statement you must have been one of those that failed and couldn't hack it in those games, otherwise you wouldn't be making that statement as quite a few people actually do complete everything then wait months before new things come out... I guess those are just another thing that just isn't for you.

hmmm, prolly cause my chars had some server first kills and server first achievments in WoW while the guild I was actively participating in was horde best on server but please, don't let that stop you from talking about my view on WoW and Aion

I vote for you to stop being a douche fuck and step off your high horse and maybe the next time you disagree with people explain your reasoning rather then trying to inflate your head on the forums and whine that it isn't fair for the big guys while insulting people by telling them "You Fail".

I'm sorry, but I failed to spot a real argument in the topic of a stat-cap. Some whiners came up, whined "Xar this, Xar that", failed to accept arguments against their logic (named Saya, Freya, Zin or even Ilrahil - positively this time, so don't bite me Ilrahil) and keep whining that people disagree with them.
By all means please keep going after me, rather than after what I am saying, becaues all I AM saying is
"not 100% of the game is created for 100% of it's players!"

stat cap or size cap or whatever cap you want to see implemented to lessen the impact of others' achievments on your poor performance is NOT going to help "everybody" and especially not the game (as you wished it to be)

I gave you reasons why not
Fourt gave you other reasons why not
Ilrahil gave you reasons why not
Tive and Sharn tossed in some thoughts
and yet ... 3 people want it, so I am the wrong-doer to not agree with them

honestly - I enjoy such discussion for the sake of discussing more then trying to prove any point ... teaches me new things about human behaviour now and then