What should a guild have for it's type?

[Kvator]

"ohh - and believe me I have an idea of what they can do - especially when I see glad/warlock who (on full offence setup) can match Calia/BM of similar size in damage and then after 10 minutes tank Mithas with ease (after equiping shield and changing Warlock spells) then I feel like calling them OP is not an overstatement lol."


I'mma call bullshit on this xD Majorly unless the gladiator in question is freakishly big

1-2 spots difference (rankings) in str/dex (stats responsible for "damage") for glad and calian in question.

Can it be called "similar size"?

[Draugor]

Doesent make it less made up, cant keep it going 24/7 without tons of mats, it doesent hold overly long and the warlock store mats are not cheap

Have you actually ever tried beeing a warlock? Cause it kinda feels like... no?

And where was this whining from you everytime EW was discussed?

Yes - I was for like 3-4 days, didn't liked the guild at all (ugly guildhelp, not appealing lore and no wow-factor whatsoever - I prefer oots much more). Been teaming up with Warlocks for quite a long though. Seeing things. Comparing things.

As for EW, there are two things:
1 - Before Warlocks opened there were more EW-whiners (consisiting of most vocal member of this game community - like yourself for example) than EW-members, so there was no need to add anything there. Now these EW-whiners are silent and happy about fire being beaten with fire. For me now instead of solving one issue (EW) second one was created (Warlocks) to 'compensate'.
2 - Shortly before Warlocks opened speed-meter was introduced showing exactly how unbalanced this speed boost is. I was sure that EW speed boost is like equivalent of two items or something (I was in EW as Pyros follower way before their 'recode' and haven't team with them as much as I do with Warlocks nowadays).

BTW - be sure to read above twice at least before writing things like: OMG YOU JUST SAID THAT EW ARE FINE AND LOCKS NO! OMG OMG!

"Beaten with fire"? Not even sure wtf that me ans

Read back alittle, I said the amount of speed is probably on a to high level 2 pages or so? The main argument against EW has always been that its an impossible guild to get into if certain leaders know what alt you're joining on, people have even been told to not even apply even on alts. Cause in effect it more or less gave the speedspell to only one side wich is a gigantic advantage So the balance was mainly adressed cause of the way that people where admitted.

And EW speedboost gets you to the same level as warlocks on the meter.

I've said they are fine from the document wich is why Arman let them through balance.

Its also quite funny that the "good" side dont start bitching untill an actually neutral layman opens up with the same powers Thats actually hillarious especially since getting the spells takes ALOT more time and the mats are alot more expensive and cant just be grinded in nifty made caves or herbs right outside the guild

[Draugor]

Draugor, have you EVER done proper grinding as SoHM? No? I bet you haven't, not as a SoHM only, you probably did it as SoHM+layman. And no, the numbers might not be exactly right, but they're not that far of. Sure, if you grind with minor spells only, mage strength and a small shielding spell or truesight, you can easily get that fast, but then again, you're not much faster than a Merc/BM of same size with equal equipment either, so...

But warlocks have to buy expensive items to make their charms... Oh wow, I'd rather spend some platinum over time having to get 6+ of each component and carry these around, honestly. And before you start whining about having to get the leftovers... Well, sorry, but we use those too, so does at least PoT and Mages too, dunno about EW, EC, Heralds or OotS here...

And yes, I've been a warlock, I even got the speed spell from warlocks, which is why I know how OP locks are

I have quite alot of lesser spell grinding as a SOHM both solo and in team Think I was 5th to join on the release and was in them for quite some time before leaving and then rejoining just recently, so yes, I have alot of grinding down with them, and no, I have never needed to spend even close to that much time for that kind of grind even with lessers So I am not sure what you're doing but its something wrong. 40 mins in the morning and I could grind all day preferably with a tank ofc since it just makes it so much smoother.

So why dont you join stay SoHm/Warlock then if they are so OP? Instead of cry over it? You'd actually cry over leftovers? Seriously? Wow... triggers are your friend... I mean I do believe you would cry over it you deffo seem the type.

So you managed to get one spell? Congrats? Did you go get them all? Did you actually try em all? Check limitations on them? How OP is an AOE damage spell? Or is that fine cause its your guild, I imagine a fireball in lets say Mithas feels nice? Kinda feel thats going to grind alot faster than any sohm/lock combo. Especially since you have speed AND AOE. THen again I suppose we can remove all your tankspells for balance sake, you're a mage after all and buffing feels more like a cleric thing

And before you start on the "blabla morguls blabla" they nerfed stats and nuked one and one and guess what, I said that was overpowered aswell. Statcloud is stupid as a whole.

But back to the topic at hand, layman speed is not an issue, like I said, the amount? Sure it feels stupid much. But thats for Arman to calculate with his Caid doc. And he has, found its fine as is and thats that Also where was your crying on EW's speed and stats?

Anyways, sleep I will reply to hypocritical and inane babbling tomorrow

[Amberlee]

Oh my damn.
There is a lot of ignorance in this thread.
Now tossing the OPness discussion of things out the window I will say this.

The AoB approved and followed it's own guidelines when balancing the warlocks, and whom are you to question it?
As a Titan you have ZERO experience with the grind of a SoHM/WoHS... ZERO..
And I can tell you this much Tulasi, and I can tell you this much.. Draugor has for a fact 10 times the experience you have with grinding as SoHM.
So please stop talking from a position of ignorance as it reflects poorly on you, and not only you but the station you have in the game.
Now here is something for you.
EW has had this power for YEARS and controlled by a select few in genesis.
The only difference is now everyone has access to that power.

To magic vs melee.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and no doubt when it comes to grinding, magic guilds may have a slight advantage but they also require preparation. Their real strength is in the diversity though, the ability to choose offensive or to go defensive.
And yeah there are melee laymans who can do what they do purely defensively or offensively.
The operative word here is synergy, how guilds synergize with eachother.

Now if you have any questions regarding this you can reach me on the genesis discord, or the SoHM/WoHS one.

[Kvator]

And EW speedboost gets you to the same level as warlocks on the meter.

I know?

I just didn't imagine this speed boost (for both guilds) is so huge (you get more speed via 1 layman spell than via full set of speed-increasing eq) before speed-meter was introduced (which is shortly before Warlocks were opened).

[Drazson]

*chomps popcorn wildly*

[Cherek]

Chill everyone. The louder you shout, and the angrier you get, the less likely people are to actually listen, even if you have something good to say. So, can we please be a little nicer towards each other in this thread so it does not end up in the flame section? Thank you!

[Draugor]

And EW speedboost gets you to the same level as warlocks on the meter.

I know?

I just didn't imagine this speed boost (for both guilds) is so huge (you get more speed via 1 layman spell than via full set of speed-increasing eq) before speed-meter was introduced (which is shortly before Warlocks were opened).

Yes, again, I've said that its insane about 50 times not just in this thread and should be scaled back, what it is now however is what the balance document says and thus via the standards of genesis its balanced Not removed, just made non insane, the statboost that Tul is on about tho? Just because he has no idea what magestr actually is or how it works doesent make statspells OP especially once you're on the softcap levels.

Again, where was this when it was only EW?

[Kvator]

Again, where was this when it was only EW?

I asnwered this twice already:

- when it was only EW there was no speed-o-meter available (making this issue that clear)
- when it was only EW number of anti-EW whiners was higher than number of EW-members (and now half of the mud is running with broken combos)

as for stat-boosters - yea they are fine I guess since you can get similar result via other means (eq) and that should be like an indicator for layman spells. When 1 layman spell give more than you can get via even full set of speed items then something is totally wrong. If 'balance document' allows that then it should be reviewed probably.

[Draugor]

Again, where was this when it was only EW?

I asnwered this twice already:

- when it was only EW there was no speed-o-meter available (making this issue that clear)
- when it was only EW number of anti-EW whiners was higher than number of EW-members (and now half of the mud is running with broken combos)

as for stat-boosters - yea they are fine I guess since you can get similar result via other means (eq) and that should be like an indicator for layman spells. When 1 layman spell give more than you can get via even full set of speed items then something is totally wrong. If 'balance document' allows that then it should be reviewed probably.

Weird tho cause I for one knew that the speedboost was this big as in not far from the cap cause me and a few others had tested it, clocked specials etc

I think Arman said that reviewing it was the first thing he did when he took the possition

Tbh, remove speed completely then again the actual issue is magic since that has never been balanced properly, so lets close all magic guilds while we're going for balance