Genesis Forums

Makfly wrote:If it should be revived, the structure should certainly be reworked into something were it is not based off of someones individual idea of what "good roleplaying" is.

https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... =17&t=1166

Laurel wrote:http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/art ... medev-4173

read, understand, memorize
pure RP (or any other "pure" approach) will die out

I love how the same ppl whine here about lack of RP and do all sorts of utter lack of RP in Gen - quite a common approach the moment it's about friends or bypassing rules or getting better/more monkey anuses (different per category of player)

I loved this site. I'll find time to watch the hour-long video at some point.

G.

Manglor wrote:

Kiara wrote:

arcon wrote: Will it hurt? Most likely not.

Any change will be disliked by some. Thats the nature of things. For YOU more RP focus is a positive change. But I would not trust that _every_ player feel the same way.

I still think it's worth bringing RP back to the forefront. I can't see people leaving over trying to increase this very important aspect.

I dont disagree. However many of the changes that has drawn us away from RP probably were made because people wanted it? In many cases requested it. For example easier system to join guilds. PVP tools removal/downgrades. Higher titles. More grinding areas. I mean players in general have usually asked for stuff related to XP, meaning this is what people mainly want to do? Maybe? Well who knows. Just speculating here. It's rare to hear players ask for RP related changes though, its usually more technical requests and complaints. Like balance, equipment, grinding areas, etc. RP is a topic rarely discussed here, but I am happy I somehow sparked an RP discussion with m poor RP-log-posting.

As for people leaving, I think that should be a secondary concern in most decisions. Do something, some may stop playing. Do nothing, some may stop playing. That's just gonna happen no matter what. So if Gorboth feels he wants this game to be more about RP, then go for it I say! People will either adapt or leave, but that goes for any decision, including leaving things as they are.

I definitely think if more RP is wanted, the key thing is to put players in situations where RP is needed and expected. Guild applications is, or at least should, be one. So try to figure out how to bring RP back to all guilds is a start. Like I said I strongly believe conflicts are another way to put people into more RP situations. So if we could figure out a way to make PVP more fun for everyone I think RP will follow, and it would also lead to more interaction with guild leaders, meaning guild will need to have active leadership, and maybe guild leaders would WANT to be active to, because its fun when stuff is happening. Makfly's ideas seem to be of a similar approach. I definitely like the war room!

I think coding stuff thats puts players in situations where RP is needed is better than coding things that will reward RP. Because rewarding RP will mean someone will have to be a judge over what is "good" RP, and that will of course depend on who you are asking.

Manglor wrote:

Kiara wrote:

arcon wrote: Will it hurt? Most likely not.

Any change will be disliked by some. Thats the nature of things. For YOU more RP focus is a positive change. But I would not trust that _every_ player feel the same way.

I still think it's worth bringing RP back to the forefront. I can't see people leaving over trying to increase this very important aspect.

I dont disagree. However many of the changes that has drawn us away from RP probably were made because people wanted it? In many cases requested it. For example easier system to join guilds. PVP tools removal/downgrades. Higher titles. More grinding areas. I mean players in general have usually asked for stuff related to XP, meaning this is what people mainly want to do? Maybe? Well who knows. Just speculating here. It's rare to hear players ask for RP related changes though, its usually more technical requests and complaints. Like balance, equipment, grinding areas, etc. RP is a topic rarely discussed here, but I am happy I somehow sparked an RP discussion with m poor RP-log-posting.

As for people leaving, I think that should be a secondary concern in most decisions. Do something, some may stop playing. Do nothing, some may stop playing. That's just gonna happen no matter what. So if Gorboth feels he wants this game to be more about RP, then go for it I say! People will either adapt or leave, but that goes for any decision, including leaving things as they are.

I definitely think if more RP is wanted, the key thing is to put players in situations where RP is needed and expected. Guild applications is, or at least should, be one. So try to figure out how to bring RP back to all guilds is a start. Like I said I strongly believe conflicts are another way to put people into more RP situations. So if we could figure out a way to make PVP more fun for everyone I think RP will follow, and it would also lead to more interaction with guild leaders, meaning guild will need to have active leadership, and maybe guild leaders would WANT to be active to, because its fun when stuff is happening. Makfly's ideas seem to be of a similar approach. I definitely like the war room!

I think coding stuff thats puts players in situations where RP is needed is better than coding things that will reward RP. Because rewarding RP will mean someone will have to be a judge over what is "good" RP, and that will of course depend on who you are asking.

Remind me what was the outcome of Beregond's RP event/guild and it's fight against MM.
Please also do downgrade MM abilities to emotes - I'm sure they can emote people into submission. Just like Novo-vampires did.
While at it - downgrade all specials and spells into emotes. It's a RP MuD and proud of it.

Laurel wrote:Remind me what was the outcome of Beregond's RP event/guild and it's fight against MM.
Please also do downgrade MM abilities to emotes - I'm sure they can emote people into submission. Just like Novo-vampires did.
While at it - downgrade all specials and spells into emotes. It's a RP MuD and proud of it.

Every thing that isn't numbers are there for RP reasons. Without any RP at all this game would look a bit like this:

Laurel hits creature542 with weapon34 for 56 damage.
Laurel use special31 and miss
Creature542 hit Laurel with attack76 for 345 damage.
Laurel use special12 and hit creature542 for 674 damage.
Creature542 die.
Laurel gained 76xp and 98 points of loot.

Where do you want to go?
Domain: Avenir
Area: Bazaar
Room: Doll

Room Doll.
Doll4, creature32, creature32 and creature56
Action: Attack Doll4.


Does that sound like a good game to you?

Role play is the soul of the game. It is what makes a game more or less special. And we want to come up with some way encourage players to also add RP to the game and make it even deeper. It would not be mandatory but IF I HAD MY WAY the guilds with no rp would be less powerful then guilds that forces people to always rp. Why? Because grinders gain their powers by grinding while roleplayers that don't like to grind are forced to grind(just as you are afraid people would be forced to roleplay), so to balance things out people that roleplay gaine their powers from their guild and the people that manage to do both have even more power since they have to both grind and keep up a good rp.
You complain that people that don't reach the softcap complain about size difference and this is just the same thing. People that don't roleplay could just learn how to roleplay and gain more power and at the same time add more to the game.

Disclaimer: This is what I would like to happen but I know it won't so no need to flame it.

arcon wrote:Because grinders gain their powers by grinding while roleplayers that don't like to grind are forced to grind(just as you are afraid people would be forced to roleplay)

Hear hear!

That's my problem that I keep find myself having with this whole discussion. Those who keep saying "not everyone wants to roleplay, bugger off" when I think almost all of us (on the pro-RP end of the spectrum) have said we don't want every guild to be like Mages, SU, SCoP, PoT - we'd just like to see a small increased standard of RP, one that doesn't blatantly break immersion at every turn. So, what, those of us who enjoy RP are just supposed to accept that the game has almost none left anymore? Why are we supposed to just accept that change when those who are so against RP are unwilling to accept any change to the contrary?

The game has become so tuned to grinding to cater to players who just say "to hell with RP" that if you are in a guild like SCoP, for example, where I would say I spend 50% of my play time RPing, you get left behind. However, if I make a complaint about that, I'd be told by most of the playerbase "too bad, join a different guild." Well, sure, you could say that. But put the shoe on the other foot. What if the game was set up as Arcon suggests, and every time you said "but, my special isn't as good as that guy in SCoP!" the larger RP base of players said to you "too bad, join a different guild." You'd probably start making threads on the forums talking about how RP was killing the game, just as several of us view grinding and botting as killing the game.

I personally think grinding is very boring but I have always felt I _have to_ do it. Well, I eventually I decided to just stop it. Except a few hours in Mithas recently Kiara hasnt gone on a XP-run for... well I dont even remember when. A year at least. When people invite me I either make up some excuse or simply tell them I think its boring and I dont want to.

I think the need to grind so much to be able to stand up against the grinders definitely takes away time from RP. I never mentioned that because I figured its so obvious. I am almost certain that in the past when the highest level was much lower people most people never felt the same need to grind, I sure didnt, and spent their time doing other things, like PVP and RP.

About rewarding RP with power that has been suggested now a few times (not only by you Arcon)...

Sure, it balances out fine if people in those guilds focus more on RP and dont grind so much, so they're all hero/titan sized or so. But thats not how it works. Of the 10 biggest people in the game a majority belongs to RP guilds. So we would rather end up with huge powers + huge stats becomes... yikes... One idea would of course be to somehow, and in a logical way, cap stat sizes in RP guilds... but well... that seems a bit complicated...

Another problem with this is that it would be like saying you DONT have to RP in the other weaker guilds. And what if say BDA players decides to focus on heavy RP. Then they need to be upgraded to an RP guild and get more power? And if Scops loosen their RP standards should they then be downgraded? I mean we've had guilds that were taking RP seriously but now are more or less without RP. So that can happen too. I think its just too complicated. I mean balance seems hard enough without factoring in RP, and I havent even mentioned the problem that someone has to judge what is good and bad RP.

I totally understand the idea but... it just seems like a too complicated system to me.

I think a better and easier solution is simply to require less grinding in the game. Like it was before. And come up with other rewards for those who like it. Or, simply make that choice. Sacrifice grinding for RP, PVP and interaction. If I held the button for that change I'd press it right now.

I must say, I've had much more fun than I've had in many years since I decided to stop grinding completely and only focus on interacting with people. And no, not only this recent mage thing, but before too, and in more friendly ways. Sometimes during events competing, or during events teaming, or sometimes I've simply hanged around Sparkle bugging people and forcing them to interact with me. I'd wish more would stay though instead of just run past to the next grinding area without so much as a glance.

Funny thing is I am often met with surprise when I say no to grinding. And people find it quite odd that I've been a Worshipper for quite some time without reaching the highest level, something most people do in.. days? I would recommend trying though! Stop grinding and try to think about what else you could do. It might be fun!

Kiara wrote:Funny thing is I am often met with surprise when I say no to grinding. And people find it quite odd that I've been a Worshipper for quite some time without reaching the highest level, something most people do in.. days? I would recommend trying though! Stop grinding and try to think about what else you could do. It might be fun!

I'm with you. Took me roughly a year and a half to reach the highest title in the Worshippers when I was there.

Kiara wrote: [...] Of the 10 biggest people in the game a majority belongs to RP guilds. [...]

There have been and are members of "RP guilds" who does not roleplay much or at all, just as there are consistent roleplayers in "Non-RP guilds".
Therefore I think it'll be best for the community to just do away with these two labels, just as we have, hopefully, gotten rid of "Elite guilds" and "Non-elite guilds" by now.

So there really are no such thing as RP or Non-RP guilds in Genesis. All guilds should provide a player with the thematic background that they can spin their roleplaying from and build on to.


That said we can certainly agree that some guilds are better coded to support the members roleplay, while others are fairly empty shells without much support.