New Player Experience

[OgreToyBoy]

Even with walkthroughs quests are a pain, for me anyway.
Soooooooo boring to do them AGAIN

[Cherek]

I don't think we should publish full quest solutions but add more hints to the quest orb. And if we want to encourage questing without hints it is possible to give slightly less qxp for each hint asked for. It is possible to add three or four hints, depending on how big the quest is, and the first one hints where to find it and using that you get full qxp but the second one hints a bit more in general about the quest and by using it you get a little less xp and for each hint you get more details but less xp.

One of the worst ideas I have seen on this forum so far. So you want to make the gap between the new players and the old ones even bigger? Why? Because you are in this privileged group (and please don't even try to convice people that you've made quests only by yourself)?
Other than that making super-duper hint-system deluxe would be cool of course, but who have time for this? It will take months to prepare it right. And with walkthroughs we can just review and publish the stuff all of us-older players already have within few days.

I agree that reducing XP for hints used would probably just mean even more reason to use solutions instead. More hints in the orbs, or something similar to the "hint" command could work I think, but the reward should remain the same regardless if you use the hints or not.

As for publishing solutions on the official webpage, or within the game, no, I personally dont have an interest in that. I think people are overestimating both the need to quest, and the need to use solutions. To reach a decent size, like hero/titan, you do not have to finish nearly all our quests. Far from it. And not all quests are crazy hard without solution either. I myself have solved about a third of our quests without solutions, and the rest with, and if you put your mind to it and ask people you learn to know in game you'll pretty soon get it. Questing without solutions in Genesis requires you to be social, and I dont think thats a bad thing at all. Just because solutions where the coolest thing in the 90s doesnt mean a new generation of players _must_ use solutions too. And they dont have to be myths either and solve every quest and script grind for years to reach it. If we could solve the need to be big (that we have invented ourselves) then there wouldnt be the same grind race, and you would also need less quests, and could actually spend some time solving the ones you like instead of running through 10+ each login using solutions.

[Icarus]

I don't think we should publish full quest solutions but add more hints to the quest orb. And if we want to encourage questing without hints it is possible to give slightly less qxp for each hint asked for. It is possible to add three or four hints, depending on how big the quest is, and the first one hints where to find it and using that you get full qxp but the second one hints a bit more in general about the quest and by using it you get a little less xp and for each hint you get more details but less xp.

How about a system where you get the current hint as you do now, more hint with another command, forcing you to go through several more non-walkthrough hints before you get solves, although not direct walkthrough but more like:

Code: Select all

You'll have to go <there> and do something like <this and that>, then find <item> which is located in the vecinity of <location>.

As an example (not a real Q of course):
1st hint:

You see a warden in the Shire, he seems in need of a break.

2nd hint:

The tired warden seems to be hold up close to some nasty orcs, and really in need of that break!

3rd hint:

Just north of the road in Shire there are some orc camps, in the vecinity there is also a store and a warden, the warden there in in need of a break, and he's got a hunger for cookies!

Solution:

Code: Select all

To solve this quest you will have to go to Bree and there obtain a few cookies from Barliman. After this you need to get closer to Hobbiton, although not the entire way, find a hidden path north, past a camp of smaller orcs, go westwards, and find a warden. He's hungry, and he got a love for cookies.

That would be, essentially a walkthough, but it's much better than:

Code: Select all

X: Cookies for warden
 (Huge sign)
 <*> (cookies) 5e, n, buy 10 cookies,
 <*> (warden) s, 22w, sw, 2w, 4n, 2ne, 3nw, w, 2n, e, ask warden help, ask warden pause,
        ask warden hunger, ask warden sweettooth, give cookies to warden,
 <*> (Sign) w, 2s, e, 3se, 2sw, 4s, 2e, ne, 17e

[OgreToyBoy]

Hope that is a real quest.. Haven't done it

[Cherek]

Yup, thats more like it, and that's how it works in the tutorial lands too.

I think that you could also vary the level of hints, some quests may have just level one hints, others may have all levels of hints down to the solution.

I do think Arcon's idea of rewarding people who solve the quest with no or less hints used has some merit when I think about it. Not in the form of more quest XP, but maybe you could get some extra bag of coins or an item or something... worth thinking about.

Anyway, I think it would be great to add these types of hints to the quests suitable for people fresh out of the tutorial, to begin with. Then we could expand this system to add more quests as we go. If someone would be interesting in writing hints, I'd be willing to have a chat with the rest of the admin and work to implement it.

We could always select a bunch of quests for a "test run". Like the ones form Tarshir, or another newbie friendly quest master.

[Snowrose]

have tipless quests drop gems.
gems are much wanted by newer players
who often cant just farm the mobs that drop them
and they dont know all the hiden spots yet
and since you can bank them they feel more perminate
and you can look at them and say that topaz i got from the quest in shire.

but gems are not sonething irreplacable that people
will be all like thats no fair they got a topaz and i did not
cause you can always just find or buy a topaz relitivly cheap

if they droped extra exp or imbues people would whine.

[Arcon]

Should we come up with a way for people to get the same amount of combat xp as the heavy grinder for people that don't want to grind? People that don't like grinding non stop will never ever get the same amount of xp as a grinder. We force people to grind but we shouldn't force them to do quests?
Just something to think about.

I don't want a gap between players but quests are not the problems with that and publishing quest solutions would be to give it all on a silver platter.
All I'm saying is that this issue needs to be looked at from different ways. Maybe the way would be to take away the difference between quest xp and combat xp and let people choose.

Adding more hints is something that should be considered but only hints. People will manage to find the help they need sooner or later, if they are lucky. But they don't need to take up the solution and spend three days doing all the quests in the game just by following exact instructions and then be done with it. You need to spend time questing just as you have to grinding if you want to grow.

btw kvator, I have not done all the quests and I will never be able to reach the qxp cap, I have been punished for using quest solutions and I did loose a bunch of qxp for it.

[Icarus]

I think that you could also vary the level of hints, some quests may have just level one hints, others may have all levels of hints down to the solution.

I just wrote an example! It's not my job to provide the clues

[OgreToyBoy]

....btw kvator, I have not done all the quests and I will never be able to reach the qxp cap, I have been punished for using quest solutions and I did loose a bunch of qxp for it.

Sounds awful, wonder if more have been punished like this. Actually this seems retarded, should be some way to have these things checked and give back all questxp that was taken. To punish someone for using/sharing/Writing quest solutions is plain wrong.
It is the single most important xp as it can't be replaced, depending on the amount you can force a person into stop playing.

Now to have reached questxp cap doesn't automatically mean you get big, but it helps a bit. The rough part is to aquire all that combatxp.

[Davvol]

To punish someone for using/sharing/Writing quest solutions is plain wrong.

Back in 90's some players where banned and chars deleted for sharing quest info. I think, Vgi was deleted for sharing Avenir quest info.